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Team Asgard (Scandinavian) - TAC ’14 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Emme Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 5142 days ago 980 posts - 1594 votes  Speaks: Italian*, English, German Studies: Russian, Swedish, French | Message 305 of 438 06 June 2014 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | ||
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@Sarnek and @jeff_lindqvist
I’ve been following your discussion about the exact articulation point for the /s/ and I find it really interesting. The only thing that I’m slightly perplexed about is this:
I’m sure Jeff is an expert enough linguist to be aware of the problem and minimize it as much as possible, but I’m afraid there may be no way to really produce a slowed-down version of a phoneme without actually altering the “natural” articulation that occurs at normal speed. I wonder if it’s possible to completely override the observer effect (i.e. the act of observing a phenomenon has an impact on the phenomenon being observed) in this case. My 2 cents. But I’m eager to hear your opinions on that. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4010 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 306 of 438 06 June 2014 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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Gratz Serpent! Degree in what if I may ask? :)
Emme that's true enough, but I think the difference would be minimal (like the argument over the Italian "acqua", whether <cq> is actually [k:w] or rather [kʷ:]). The important thing is that I can now sleep since I've figured out why the hell it sounded so smooth. Now the only mistery left is how to pronunce the "i", but I guess I'll never be able to unravel that. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Emme Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 5142 days ago 980 posts - 1594 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, German Studies: Russian, Swedish, French | Message 307 of 438 06 June 2014 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | ||
Well, you’d better take advantage of the weekend to make up for lost sleep before a new dilemma ruins your nights! ;-) I know, I know: with exams in full swing that easier said than done, but still… When will you be done for the summer session? Late June? Mid July? Good luck! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4010 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 308 of 438 06 June 2014 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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Mid July, yes. Thanks! :D
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 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6704 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 309 of 438 07 June 2014 at 12:29am | IP Logged | ||
I know that speed may affect (our perception of) how we pronounce things. If I hadn't thought twice before writing the post, I would have said that the tip touched the central incisors (or maybe nothing at all in natural speech, assimilation and all that). While that produces some kind of passable [s] according to Swedish phonology, it doesn't match the actual position of my tongue. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4010 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 310 of 438 07 June 2014 at 9:07am | IP Logged | ||
But where's the friction? Between the tongue and the teeth or between the tongue and the alveolar ridge? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6704 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 311 of 438 07 June 2014 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'd say the teeth, but again, this is how I feel it. Other natives may disagree, as may phoneticians.
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| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4010 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 312 of 438 07 June 2014 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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My experience with phoneticians, when it comes to Swedish mind you, is very poor. Their
descriptions are either too approximative or they don't even skim the surface of the problems. For example the voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative, [ɕ], like the <tj> in the word <tjugo> was described as voiceless palatal fricative, [ç]. And I'm talking about specialised linguistics books. I know it's just a trifle, but it really pisses me off how they put so much effort in describing German or English phonetics systems whereas Swedish' is carelessly neglected. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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