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How do polyglots do it? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Hungringo Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 3777 days ago 168 posts - 329 votes  Speaks: Hungarian*, English, Spanish Studies: French | Message 81 of 159 09 January 2014 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I learnt Spanish as a young adult but through total immersion living in Latin-America, living and working with natives and almost marrying a native girl. This initial Latin-American immersion period was later reinforced by intensively studying standard Castilian Spanish. Edited by Hungringo on 09 January 2014 at 10:23pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4698 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 82 of 159 09 January 2014 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
You said earlier that an L1 speaker has an "innate knowledge". Much of what you say has merit, but this is patently false. They weren't born with their language, they had to learn it. And imitation doesn't mean you speak less well. Even an L1 speaker had to learn to speak their language by imitating their parents and peers. Does that mean they can't speak as well as their parents? The native might have everyone else beat on fluency, because they have learnt it to the point that it comes to them "naturally" and without thinking about it. But even then, I know native English speakers who have trouble expressing themselves very well beyond expressing their basic needs. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| culebrilla Senior Member United States Joined 3786 days ago 246 posts - 436 votes Speaks: Spanish | Message 83 of 159 09 January 2014 at 10:30pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
A lot of people have done that. They still don't have native-like accents. My French-speaking native friend has lived about 11 years fully immersed in English (from age 16-27) and speaks perfectly in English. But can't shake his obvious accent. Or my relatives that have lived in the US from 18-50 and still have very slight but obvious accents even while living and working 95% in English. Edit: You also don't necessarily need to go abroad to be good at a language. Personally, I do find it much easier to just go live abroad and live 100% in the language. But I've met a few noteworthy individuals that just spend a LOT of time with the language while in their own country and form their own language cocoon. I'm not saying this is how it was in your case, but there are people that marry spouses and never speak their language. With my South American girlfriend I felt like my Spanish got worse with her and we spoke a mix of English and Spanish. Personally, I have many years of formal, rigorous Spanish education and can teach Spanish grammar to a monkey. I've also lived full time immersed in several countries. However, I have an obvious accent and am not close to the level of a native speaker. I started learning Spanish at age 14 but will not, barring many, many hours with a speech therapist specialist in accent reduction, ever speak with a native-like accent. Nor do I care. But I don't ever say that I have native-like abilities in anything in my second language. Finally, the natives may be just being nice or considerate. Several/many times native speakers have asked me if I was a native speaker but I know that they are being kind. I've recorded myself and listened to myself and it doesn't sound close to a native speaker. If you want, send me a link via PM of you speaking Spanish and I'll ask my native friends if they think you are a native speaker. To make it fair I won't tell them that you are or aren't a native speaker. Edited by culebrilla on 09 January 2014 at 11:02pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Hungringo Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 3777 days ago 168 posts - 329 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, English, Spanish Studies: French | Message 84 of 159 09 January 2014 at 10:38pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I think a lot depends on what your native language is. I believe that acquireing a native-like accent in Spanish is especially difficult for native English speakers. But the opposite is also true, I would never have a native-like accent in English. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4079 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 85 of 159 09 January 2014 at 10:38pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I am not sure if I am uncanny, but if I have a friend or acquintaince and talk to thim
or her frequently, I pick up his or her accent after a few months. I remember when I used to play World of Warcraft (I admit it), I had a playing partner from Texas. After one year, I picked up more than I expected, so I had a mixed Bumble-like accent with Texas therein. However, when I stopped playing, that accent stopped. Likwise when I lived in Newcastle, I picked up some semi-Geordie type accent and that mixed in as well. One can get a very good accent I feel by listening to one person for a long time. I model my entire Spanish accent on this newcaster, whom I have watched for years on RTVE: http://youtu.be/ISn4XLF7Sbs She has a very nice and clear accent, which has not changed at all even since 2006 or 2007. So I talk almost identical to her accent and way of speaking (without the pitch of voice though). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| culebrilla Senior Member United States Joined 3786 days ago 246 posts - 436 votes Speaks: Spanish | Message 86 of 159 09 January 2014 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
No. Spanish is one of the easiest languages for an English speaker to get a good accent in. The only notable sounds that Spanish has that we don't is the "rr" and the "ñ", which is relatively very easy to imitate. Now even though Spanish is a phonologically poor language, it is still extremely difficult for foreigners to get a very, very good native-like accent in it. One of the guys that appears often on RTVE is an Italian guy that speaks excellent Castilian. However, he has an obvious Italian accent even though it is very good. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| culebrilla Senior Member United States Joined 3786 days ago 246 posts - 436 votes Speaks: Spanish | Message 87 of 159 09 January 2014 at 10:44pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Wow, she speaks very well. Most newscasters do, however. My Spanish friend (one of many, really) was telling me yesterday how she thought that all newscasters are all the same now in Spain. They all try to have a very neutral accent and have other things in common that I don't recall right now. What program does she run on RTVE? The only two programs I've listened to are Futuro Abierto and No es un Día cualquiera. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Hungringo Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 3777 days ago 168 posts - 329 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, English, Spanish Studies: French | Message 88 of 159 09 January 2014 at 10:48pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
When I hear Anglophones speaking Spanish I have the impression that the problem is not with their sounds, but with their intonation and stress patterns. I have also noticed that speakers of closely related languages usually can learn the related language well, but their intonation gives them away. Most Italians speak Spanish flawlessly but with noticeable Italian intonation. On the other hand I met Germans and Finns who spoke Spanish with native-like accents. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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