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How do polyglots do it? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4698 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 137 of 159 11 January 2014 at 12:54am | IP Logged | ||
I knew a woman from New Zealand who lived in India. She was regularly asked by the locals to speak English (when she was speaking English). If you haven't heard the accent, it can be difficult. Strong Scottish accents are sometimes given subtitles on English TV, and they live only a few hours away. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5219 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 138 of 159 11 January 2014 at 1:39am | IP Logged | ||
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As Jeffers has so rightly pointed out, accents within a language can be as challenging as foreign accents. It
reminds me of the common observation that we think that everbody else has an accent but not us. There are certain regional English accents that I can barely understand and I think the feeling is probably mutual. But I also think that most people can make some kind of phonetic accomodation when speaking to foreigners or people of other dialects. I wonder if we sometimes forget how much accent tells a lot about the speaker, especially in English. It seems that the English are quite sensitive about all this because of the strong social class structure of the country, but even here in Canada accent says something about where you are from, how much education you have, your social class and even your type of job. That ultimately is the difference between sounding native and what I have called accent-free or neutral. I am always amused when my Spanish-speaking friends tell me that there are over 13 regional accents in Colombia. I certainly can't tell between a native of Bogota and a native of Medellin and doubt that my Spanish, as good as it is, will ever sound like one of those 13 accents. Edited by s_allard on 11 January 2014 at 1:39am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| jpmtl Diglot Groupie Canada Joined 3791 days ago 44 posts - 115 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 139 of 159 11 January 2014 at 2:07am | IP Logged | ||
Part of the problem I think is that a lot of people in Montreal assume that if you start speaking French with a noticeable accent, you're only doing so out of politeness (or to respect the local norm as starting to speak English right away is sometimes considered rude) when in reality you would rather speak in English. So in their mind, they're doing you a favor by switching to English. Edited by jpmtl on 11 January 2014 at 2:08am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| culebrilla Senior Member United States Joined 3786 days ago 246 posts - 436 votes Speaks: Spanish | Message 140 of 159 11 January 2014 at 2:12am | IP Logged | ||
Colombia has a LOT of accents for a relatively small country due to the mountainous terrain; they are pretty distinct though. Compare the coast ones with the Bogotá one. You could develop a Colombian accent but I don't know why you would want to since you live in Canada. The Mexican one is probably the one that you most have contact with, right? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4079 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 141 of 159 11 January 2014 at 2:27am | IP Logged | ||
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In Canada, I think that class was a very important thing when it was the Dominion of
Canada, and before the Second World War. Toronto's original name was actually York, and if I remember correctly there was a select elite that ran the colonial administration there. But I am not sure if that is what is meant now when referring to Canadian accents and class. The Hispanophone country whereto most of my Canadian relatives visit is Cuba--Montréal, Toronto, and Ottawa all have probably daily direct flights not only to La Habana, but also Varadero, Santiago de Cuba, Holguín, etc. I have one cousin in Toronto who goes to Cuba every year, so probably Cuba is a choice for accent. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4496 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 142 of 159 11 January 2014 at 9:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think before you start picking a regional accent you might want to learn a general
accent and the language... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5321 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 143 of 159 11 January 2014 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | ||
True, Montreal does have some special complications, including: 1. That person who sounds like a native French speaker may be equally native-sounding in English. Seriously, if I haven't figured out their native language after 5 minutes of bilingual conversation, then they can speak whichever language they want with me. 2. At least in parts of Montreal, you're not really in a French-speaking society at all. You're in a bilingual society, where it's taken as a given that many people have at least a B1 or B2 in the other language. So there's a whole etiquette around language choice, and if you want to fit in, the goal isn't to speak French all the time—it's to know when each language is the polite choice. But that said, sometime early last year, I finally crossed some threshold where 80% of people were willing to humor me and speak French. The cutover point was somewhere between B2 and C1, which doesn't help novices much, but it exists. And of course, I'm free to reply in whichever language seems most appropriate. Edited by emk on 11 January 2014 at 11:03pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5219 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 144 of 159 11 January 2014 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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Like other people have mentioned, I believe that this whole obsession with acquiring a native accent is way
overblown. As I have also said, a non-foreign sounding accent is not the same thing as a native accent. All native speakers have an accent. If they haven't moved around alot, it will be a distinct regional accent. If they have lived for extended periods in different places - the example that comes to mind is people in the military - the accent may be more composite, but accent is something that does not change much after adolescence. When we start getting all hung up about accents, I like to point out the example or the celebrated Michel Thomas. Those who have listened to his original courses will recall that he has a strong Polish accent in all his languages. He doesn't have a general accent in any of his foreign languages. I can't judge his Polish. But all this has not prevented Michel Thomas from making a little fortune teaching languages to Hollywood stars and captains of industry. So, maybe we can get over this thing about wanting to sound native. That said, what accent should one try to emulate or approximate? I believe that this is somewhat a red herring because the vast majority of people will not reach the point where they have to choose a specific accent. The influence of the first language will be aound for most of the time. I would think that most people are exposed to the voices of their language recordings and to the language of actors and media personalities. In English, and even in French although this is changing, this language is a sort of non-specific middle-upper class proper language. This is what people would usually call a general accent that is taught to foreigners. But the majority of native speakers do not speak like this at all. Edited by s_allard on 12 January 2014 at 12:52am 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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