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How do polyglots do it? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| culebrilla Senior Member United States Joined 3786 days ago 246 posts - 436 votes  Speaks: Spanish | Message 89 of 159 09 January 2014 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That's because you are listening to anglophones that have a very low level of Spanish. Listen to people that have lived abroad several years 100% immersed. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4079 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 90 of 159 09 January 2014 at 11:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Informativo de Madrid
con Marta Jaumandreu Wikipaedia: Marta Jaumandreu Marta Jaumandreu, periodista She was on Telediario 2 (telediario nacional, 21h00) each weekday, but apparently they switched her to Informativo de Madrid last year. Marta Jaumandreu, Telediario She also presented the weather years ago: Marta Jaumandreu, El Tiempo El Tiempo Apparently she started in 1997: Marta Jaumandreu, 1997 But this was the main programme wherein I watched her for news: Marta Jaumandreu, Telediario 2 I think that this method of focussing on the accent of one person helps to achieve a near-native accent because one accustoms to the details of one person rather than being confused by a range of varying accents. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| culebrilla Senior Member United States Joined 3786 days ago 246 posts - 436 votes Speaks: Spanish | Message 91 of 159 10 January 2014 at 12:22am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Sorry, does she do any podcasts? I don't like watching videos because I can't burn them to a cd or put them on my mp3 player. The foreigners that I have met abroad that speak very well and at a near-native level have lived abroad several years and have been 100% immersed. I don't really think it is necessary to listen to just one person but just to practice a lot in general. But to each his own. Both probably work. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4043 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 92 of 159 10 January 2014 at 12:30am | IP Logged | ||||||||
It all depends on what you want to do with a language, if you want to 100% blend into a community, disguise your personal history, and imitate as close as possible the local speech, well then you've got your work cut out for you. When I discuss specific topics of interest like film theory and history with a non-native English speaker, their topic specific vocabulary makes it much easier for me to communicate with them on the subject than with a native English speaker with no knowledge of the topic. The fact their speech reveals that they were not born in an English speaking country usually isn't nearly as big an impediment to communication, so long as their pronunciation is good enough to remove any ambiguity in understanding. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5219 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 93 of 159 10 January 2014 at 1:33am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Although I question the statement of speaking better than natives, I will readily admit that some foreigners, even at an adult age, can develop a native-like accent. It is very rare but it's not impossible. How does it happen? It's usually a combination of three things: 1) a talent for imitating voices 2) full immersion in the country or the speech community and c) an intimate relationship with someone of the language. When all this comes together, the results can be great.
I think, however,that there's a subtle distinction to be made between not having a noticeable foreign accent and actually speaking like a native. What I notice is that it is extremely rare for an adult learner to sound exactly like a specific native, i.e. sound exactly like an resident of Madrid or a native of Mexico City. What I do see is people who have eliminated most or all of their foreign accent and end up speaking a kind of neutral or, as was discussed here, a sort of broadcast media accent that is basically artificial. It's reminiscent of the English of American movies right up to the 60s, a sort of artificial English that everybody can understand but nobody actually speaks. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Mid-Atlantic English: "Mid-Atlantic English (sometimes called a Transatlantic accent) is a cultivated or acquired version of the English language once found in certain aristocratic elements of American society and taught for use in the American theatre. It is not a typical vernacular of any location, but rather blends American and British without being predominantly either. Mid-Atlantic speech patterns and vocabulary are also used by some Anglophone expatriates, many adopting certain features of the accent of their place of residence. "Mid-Atlantic English was popular in Hollywood films from the 1930s to the early 1960s, and continues to be associated with such people as Cary Grant,[1] Katharine Hepburn, Calvin Coolidge, William F. Buckley, Jr.,[2] Gore Vidal, George Plimpton,[3][4] Roscoe Lee Browne,[5] Norman Mailer,[6] Diana Vreeland, [7] Maria Callas, Patrick McGoohan, Cornelius Vanderbilt IV[8] and John Houseman. The monologuist Ruth Draper's recorded "The Italian Lesson" gives an example of this East Coast American upper-class diction of the 1940s. While international media tend to reduce the number of mutually unintelligible versions of English to some extent,[9] Mid-Atlantic English uses no deliberate Briticisms or Americanisms,[citation needed] so that it can be equally understandable and acceptable on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean. The term "mid-Atlantic" is sometimes used in Britain to refer, often critically, to British public figures who affect a quasi-American accent, such as fictional Radio Norwich DJ Dave Clifton from the BBC television comedy series I'm Alan Partridge." 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Julie Heptaglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6692 days ago 1251 posts - 1733 votes 5 sounds Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, GermanC2, SpanishB2, Dutch, Swedish, French | Message 94 of 159 10 January 2014 at 1:37am | IP Logged | ||||||||
In my opinion, it is possible to learn a foreign language with a native-like accent as an adult. There are obviously many factors such as the kind and amount of language input, learning methods used, the number of conversations with native speakers, and individual aptitude. But it is possible. I met a couple of foreigners who had managed to learn Polish - as young adults - with no hint of foreign accent (really, nothing at all. And I am pretty sensitive.) Individual aptitude does play an important role: I have a friend who really has an ear for languages. She is able to repeat pretty much everything (including languages she doesn't know) with the same accent, intonation etc. and is able to transfer this into her speech. I don't have any special magic pronunciation powers (my terrible English accent is enough of a proof :)) but still, for a few years, I have been regularly mistaken for a native speaker in a language I've learned as a young adult (not living in the TL country but with a lot of direct exposure), and I don't think everyone is just being kind. My grammar, vocabulary, and even my pronunciation obviously could use improvement but apparently my accent is good enough to fool many natives. That's obviously only anecdotal evidence but I can totally believe what Hungringo has written about his accent.
There are people out there, not making YouTube videos or posting on language forums. Just saying :) Edited by Julie on 10 January 2014 at 1:37am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| culebrilla Senior Member United States Joined 3786 days ago 246 posts - 436 votes Speaks: Spanish | Message 95 of 159 10 January 2014 at 1:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, I know. And as a son of an immigrant family I've met a LOT of immigrants in the US. And I've only met ONE FOB out of all of them that has a native-level accent out of all of them. My father. Edit: I don't believe I've ever posted that it is impossible for an adult learner to have a native-level accent. I know it is possible. Or at least to have a good enough accent to get so close that it is almost impossible to differentiate from that of a native speaker. But it is very, very rare. Probably like 2% out of people that live 40 years abroad can do it. Edited by culebrilla on 10 January 2014 at 1:43am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6386 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 96 of 159 10 January 2014 at 2:09am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Not to beat a dead horse, but...
And our thread reminds me on this one as well. Monolinguals and people who list one foreign language on HTLAL as "speaks" are the ones saying you can never learn even one language, let alone two or ten. I have some good news for the monolinguals though. When you reach a solid level in your first foreign language, you'll realize that you actually have this unconscious understanding that you now consider sacred and innate. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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