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How do polyglots do it? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4411 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 121 of 159 10 January 2014 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
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My wife never knew any English until she was 20 years old and she now speaks at near-native level. She
also produces a standard of written English that is miles better than what some natives can muster. So clearly you can learn to an extremely high standard by starting as an adult. Funnily enough, she has no school qualifications because she hated the place and wanted to start working as soon as it was legally possible. So you don't have to be an academic type either (although she did win school prizes for speaking Russian so I guess there some natural ability at work there). As far as accent goes. Yes, I try and pronounce my German as accurately as possible but I don't actually care if someone clocks me as a foreigner the minute I open my mouth. I'm interested in smooth communication. If my voice happens to rise and fall in a different manner to a native, then I accept that. It is what it is. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6994 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 122 of 159 10 January 2014 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
It's a type of joke with a double-entendre/double meaning. The topic is perfect for this sort of joke. Astronomers do it with stars. Dancers do it with grace. Donors do it for life. Electrical engineers do it without shorts. Pilots do it in the air. Polyglots do it with their tongues. Teachers do it with class. There are many more: http://www.joe-ks.com/Do_It_With.htm http://www.dkgoodman.com/doita-f.html Edited by luke on 10 January 2014 at 6:40pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4079 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 123 of 159 10 January 2014 at 8:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It is true that Anglophones have more pressure to have a good accent compared to vice
versa--one small mistake in Western and especially, Northern, Europe will invite a switch to English. However, in the UK, USA, Australia, etc., I have never seen one of the local Anglophones switch to the language of the non-native speaker with a strong accent. They simply communicate slowly and with difficulty no matter how much it may be, always staying in English. But this does not happen for Anglophones with a strong accent or making mistakes in, e.g. Swedish or Norwegian. Even in tourists places such as Westminster Abbey in London, the Beatles sites in Liverpool, the CN Tower in Toronto, the Harbour Bridge in Sydney, the Statue of Liberty in New York, etc., if one speaks broken English with a strong accent, an Anglophone almost never switches into the language of the interlocutor. Constrated to an Anglophone at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam, the old town of Delft, Karl Johans Gatan in Oslo, etc., the accent and fluidity of speech must be very good to avoid a switch. So it seems that the accent matters more for Anglophones than others, simply to avoid a switch. I have never switched to a different language for a non-native Anglophone who struggles , has a strong accent, or speaks slowly due to being only A2, unless they ask and I know their language, the only time being with people whom I know like in certain restaurants, which also helps me to przctise my own languages. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hekje Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4492 days ago 842 posts - 1330 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch Studies: French, Indonesian | Message 124 of 159 10 January 2014 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
Most Americans simply don't speak the native languages of the immigrants they encounter. They don't switch because they can't switch. On the other hand, English is widespread in Scandinavia, so Scandinavians sometimes switch. It has nothing to do with patience and everything to do with what someone can or can't do. It's also not the worst thing in the world if somebody switches to English. You can always ask them to switch back. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4411 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 125 of 159 10 January 2014 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think this is one of the great myths of language learning, that people in Europe will switch to English if you
make a slight mistake or possess an accent that doesn't perfectly mirror the local one. If you can communicate fluently then the other person will almost always talk back in their native tongue.....that's what they do in their homeland all day long after all. Who's to say their English is any better than the English speakers knowledge of the other language? Or that they actually want to speak a foreign language in their own country, even if they could. Is there such a thing as a non-native speaker of English who never makes a mistake or never uses the wrong word? Aside from people who moved at a young age to English-speaking countries, I've never met one. Sure, if the initial attempt at conversation is seriously stilted, some people may offer to speak English to aid communication. I'm sure the vast majority would happily switch back if the English speaker pointed out they were trying to improve their knowledge of the local tongue. Edited by beano on 10 January 2014 at 9:46pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4617 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 126 of 159 10 January 2014 at 10:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
Not really. As I advised someone in another thread, you'd be very unwise to deliberately learn (outside of the country, anyway), a British regional accent, whether it be East London Cockney, Lancashire, Yorkshire, Geordie, or anything else. The examples of royals given is obviously one extreme, but a more sensible choice is to listen to the typical speech of the more serious BBC Radio channels, or an audiobook read by someone you know is an RP speaker (you'd have to get a native speaker to verify this, or I would advise it). So what you want to aim at is "educated RP", which doesn't have to be as "cut glass" as the Queen, but clear, well-articulated, reasonably standard speech. Not of course that I think you should aim to actually sound like a native. What I mean is that aiming for this level of RP gives you a standard to work towards, and if you make a reasonably good job of it, you should be understood anywhere in the UK, and what's more, no one will think you might be mocking their regional accent.
Surely, a similar thing applies: you aim for a General American accent for exactly the same reasons. But as I say, I don't think anybody should be aiming to sound like a native speaker: just use native speakers of a standard accent as your model. There is a big difference. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4798 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 127 of 159 10 January 2014 at 11:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I doubt most learners only try to immitate the language. We want to use it, to speak it, to write it, to understand it. That's no immitation. And why the hell should people want to pretend they were born somewhere else? A secret agent in another country might find it useful but I don't need to sound like a local in a village of the area.
I was mistaken for a native from another country, so my French accent obviously isn't bad. On the other hand, I had as well people switch to English automatically. I think part of the reason is your attitude. If you look confident, people trust you can communicate in the language. If you don't look confident, they try to be helpful and switch into the ugly English no matter whether or not you look to be anglophone. They naively don't think you could speak another language (even a large one) and not English even though I know a lot of such exemples. And they naively don't think you could speak their language much much better than they speak English (which has been true about 99% of the French switching to English with me so far). I think the point behind learning a language is to use it proficiently and correctly according to the situation. That means good grasp of grammar, both standard and common colloquial variants, a passable accent that won't hurt the natives' ears, good pronunciation that won't be any obstacle in understanding, vocabulary wide enough to suffice. But should anyone see appearing to be native as the only and supreme goal? Are you so unhappy about your origins? Is hearing "ah, I've been thinking you were a native since I met you a year ago" going to cure your broken ego or what? Or are just trying to impress other learners (with realistic goals) the same way hipster teens want to impress the rest of the world? Yes, you can acquire a lot of "nativelike" pieces. I sometimes make the same mistakes my native friends do, I can fake being an English native as long as I write. I can be occassionaly (on a good day) taken for a native from somewhere else when it comes to French. Great. But I see no point in beating myself over not not being mistaken by people from Lyon for one of them. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4079 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 128 of 159 10 January 2014 at 11:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I guess it was from my experiences, perhaps my pronunciation or accent was seriously
poor, because I remember the two highest "switch" countries that I have visited have been Norway and the Netherlands. Conversely, I think that I have only switched to Spanish once in the UK to someone from university, in addition to in restaurants with Spaniards whom I already know anyway. Several years ago in Montréal, I was switched around 80% of the time, which made me almost resign myself and was considering to speak English for the rest of my stay out of defeat. But I recognise than Montréal is a specific case due to its bilingual status. But someone who has broken English, a strong accent, etc. probably has less chance for a switch into their language than vice versa. Edited by 1e4e6 on 10 January 2014 at 11:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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