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The dark side of language dominance | ||
Tags: Language Map/Atlas | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4103 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 57 of 176 30 May 2014 at 12:40am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I note the sarcasm, but I was wondering if the "sexiest accent" thing was also sarcasm or in jest. Anyone who has heard Manc accent knows that it is not exactly Inspector Morse Oxford refined speech. I could have been (semi-)Hispanophone if I were taught another language, or perhaps something else as well. What if someone wanted to keep my language free from English interference? Latin America seem quite happy to not have to be influenced so much by Anglophone media. Spain, France, and Portugal as well. Is there not a saying in Latin America about "gringo go home", "Tío Sam", "imperialismo", "fascismo" that seems to pervade? I think that they refuse English from historical events. Edited by 1e4e6 on 30 May 2014 at 1:04am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6410 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 58 of 176 30 May 2014 at 12:49am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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1e4e6, the best way to promote multilingualism to your kids is not loathing your native language and keeping them from consuming the same media as their peers. It's showing them the wonders, beauty and secrets of any language you know, including your native language. Unless the situation changes dramatically, your kids are likely to be unhappy if you force them to learn English the non-native way.
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| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3895 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 59 of 176 30 May 2014 at 12:58am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I was lumping the several existing UK accents into one, I was actually thinking about the "posh" UK accent.
Look at the world. Are more people making an effort to learn English, or are more people making an effort to Spanish/Portuguese? If you have a kid, with his/her own free will and dreams and desires, would he/she rather be Spanish language native or an english language native? You are now a native of one of the most prosperous nations in the world, with all its resources at your disposal. Use them, and learn whatever language you want.
These countries are learning English. Hollywood shows are huge in many of them.
And yet their citizens emigrate to US in huge numbers. Edited by Gemuse on 30 May 2014 at 1:53am 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4103 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 60 of 176 30 May 2014 at 1:05am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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This might be a reason why Anglophone influence and its persuasive force are not seen
as a positive factor in Latin America, due to imperialistic goals of Anglophone powers that changed life there completely (in a very negative way). I believe that Peter had already introduced this concept. It might also be why Latin America have recently established many economic ties with Russia (and thence the USSR in that time frame as well), and the PRC, instead of the USA. I believe that Rousseff already cancelled some military purchase from the USA and opted for Russia instead this year. Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Brasil, Nicaragua, Cuba, and probably more are right now strengthening their ties with the traditional Eastern Bloc. Venezuela's Foreign Secretary just met with Sergey Lawrow today in Leningrad. Edited by 1e4e6 on 30 May 2014 at 1:18am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5579 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 61 of 176 30 May 2014 at 1:25am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Gemuse, my point was that without that linguistic background in the Commonwealth, English wouldn't have spread the way it did. Certainly not at the same speed, and possibly not to the same extent.
As for Koreans and surgery ... let's not talk about Koreans and surgery.
Many of them subtitled or overdubbed. Actually, every single one I ever had the pleasure to have to watch. I've talked to many people who were trying to learn English, but felt very uncomfortable having to speak it.
Legally, too, by the way. Doesn't mean they have to love English or US culture, they may just be treating it as an economic necessity, just like your attitude towards German seems to be. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5289 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 62 of 176 30 May 2014 at 1:45am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I agree, some would say it is enriching other languages as Norman French did for English, but I would argue it's eroding them. This article has the title "How English Affects My Native Language" (could not find author) Here's some of the text: So now you finally speak that foreign language and, like me, live in that language community, spending 95% of your time expressing yourself in English. Does it affect your mother tongue? Most definitely. I’m not talking about people who develop a thick accent, sound awkward speaking their first language, or even forget it. It takes a lot of time and serious native language exclusion to end up in such a situation. It is sad, and it is not my point. My point is that there are some minor changes in the way we speak our first language, when the second language becomes the primary communication tool. Here’s what I’ve noticed analyzing my own speech. Grammar: Use of nominal modifiers (one noun precedes another and modifies it), e.g., Facebook application =application for Facebook, an office desk= a desk for an office, etc. It’s a characteristic feature of English and something that almost never happens in Russian, yet I caught myself trying to use nouns in this function. English in its standard form doesn’t allow the use of double negation, e.g., I don’t want no boring grammar lessons. Russian gladly accepts double No Nos. Nevertheless, I started carefully avoiding double negatives in my Russian as well. Vocabulary: From time to time I experience a desperate need for the Russian equivalents of some frequently used English words, for example “busy”, “excited”,” all set”, “internship”, “roommate”, etc. I can definitely find words to express the idea, but it doesn’t sound same concise and well-rounded. Is that just me? Or is that a fascinating thing that all immigrants and expats have to deal with? Some respondents replied with similar stories on how the language is affecting their own mother tongue. Edit: Of course all languages have been/are affected by other languages to some degree. I guess the blaringly obvious issue today is the extent to which one language alone is affecting more languages than on a larger scale than any other language has done in the past- this risks a walk down the path of cultural and linguistic hegemy Edited by PeterMollenburg on 30 May 2014 at 1:53am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4702 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 63 of 176 30 May 2014 at 1:54am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
You might want to check your facts. World public opinions survey show the opposite: the countries where the US had the worst 20th century track record have a better opinion than those where we have the best. So we get: Philippines: 82% positive Central America: 64% Chile: 55% Brazil: 53% Whereas among our recent allies it's only 34% for Japan, 39% for Germany and India, 48% for the UK, 45% for France, 45% for Egypt (understandable), 13% for Mexico (understandable), 9% for Pakistan (very understandable), and 13% for Turkey (the second lowest, and I can't explain why) And yet I don't know, and haven't seen evidence, that any of this impacts anyone's language study in those places. In Japan the second languages of choice were English and Chinese. In Turkey it was German and English. Even Egyptian students I know who have almost no interest in the US or the UK still speak English well. source: http://worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/views_on_countri esregions_bt/660.php? lb=brglm&pnt=660&nid=&id= edit: Response to Gemuse. Yeah, I debated whether to use the words "recent" or even "allies." As usual, it's complicated. A lot of countries were officially part of the 'non aligned' movement during the Cold War. The US and Egypt (at least, the Egyptian generals) established relations in the early 1970's, and the US & India have been called 'less than allies but more than friends.' Edited by kanewai on 30 May 2014 at 4:10am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3895 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 64 of 176 30 May 2014 at 2:14am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Dont know about Japan, Egypt and Turkey, but apart from them (and India), havent the other countries been US allies for a long long time? Edited by Gemuse on 30 May 2014 at 2:15am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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