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The dark side of language dominance | ||
Tags: Language Map/Atlas | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Saim Pentaglot Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5019 days ago 124 posts - 215 votes  Speaks: Serbo-Croatian, English*, Catalan, Spanish, Polish Studies: Dutch, Portuguese, Italian, Occitan, Punjabi, Urdu, Arabic (Maghribi), French, Modern Hebrew, Ukrainian, Slovenian | Message 17 of 176 29 May 2014 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Thankfully, the existence of language diversity is not your decision.
Neither the Serer nor Martinicans are "tribes". 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5412 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 18 of 176 29 May 2014 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I guess at the end of the day i'm a little pissed off that English is as strong as it
is due to my love of western European languages other than English. Warning that what follows is completely biast.... English might not be everywhere and other languages have made significant in-roads as beano mentioned. All in all it would be nice to see more linguistic diversity/balance in the world. Look even if the European colonists were the same European colonial powers but in different proportions of conqueuring success that what is today's world- ie if Britain had not been so dominant in the later stages of colonisation at least we'd see a more balanced world today in which more of North America spoke French, languages such as Dutch, Swedish and German didn't largely disappear from the east coast of the U.S., the French actually made it (and settled instead of the British) places like Tasmania and New Zealand's South Island, if the Dutch left more of a linguistic mark in south America, Indonesia, French in Indochina, Italians in Somalia, Portuguese in India and Ceylon, Dutch in South Africa, Germans in parts of Africa and South Australia. Problem is it's all fraught again with favoritism because of my interest completely discounting the local people and possibly offending people, but perhaps it's no more crazy than what we have today as the remnants of colonial pasts... perhaps a world without any colonialism would be nice? Then again regardless of the colonial powers that wreaked havoc on the world during those times it would be nicer if they carved up the new world in a more linguistically balanced manner. Any one got a time machine? What the hell was wrong with the Dutch? They landed on the west coast of Australia for cyring out loud! Why couldn't the French manage to arrive in the pacific a little earlier or at least more prepared. It's a shame one language today dominates so much! There was a decisive battle off the North American coast somewhere following The French defeating Britain at sea some years prior. The French expected again to walk all over the British, but they had lined the hulls of their ships with copper or sth similar. It gave the British a secret and decisive advantage, resulting in a heavy unexpected French loss that blew to pieces their chances of carving up North America. Another example at some point apparently (taken from the book 'The story of French') the French were offered ALL of Canada or simply Haiti in the Carrabean as a compromise in losing some battle with the English... They chose Haiti because of it's extremely prosperous sugar plantations. Time machine anyone? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5256 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 19 of 176 29 May 2014 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@PeterMollenburg: Don't feel too bad about the dominance of English. IMHO, one of the reasons why English has become so hugely popular is its relatively simple morphology (hardly any inflections, many frequently used monosyllabic words etc.). Also since English is basically a hybrid language, its written form is relatively easy to learn for speakers of both Romance and Germanic languages.
IMHO, if smaller languages die out, its mostly the fault of the minority speakers themselves. Take for example Turkey, which strictly prohibited and actively suppressed the use of Kurdish and only recognized it as a semi-official language a couple of years ago. Yet Kurdish has survived.
It does play a role in the lives of younger Germans who often throw in some English words and phrases. There are also many pseudo-English words in German. English is also hugely popular in German advertising campaigns, especially for high-tech products. (Have a closer look at some billboards, and you'll find many English (or Denglish) words.)
Yet relatively few native English speakers seem to be interested in learning German. I.e., statistics aren't everything. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5412 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 20 of 176 29 May 2014 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I might just add some more fuel to the fire...
Sad... And why? So they can reach a larger audience? So they can win? Sometimes I wonder about the motivations of the EU. I wouldn't be surprised if those behind the scenes pulling the strings of European leaders, lining their pockets and directing their every move have global intentions in mind. Let's face it an English dominated Europe would suck! I really do think that Québec is doing it right. English is very omnipresent in North America and fighting to protect one's language makes sense. The Dutch impose language expectations on immigrants to the Netherlands (as other EU countries also do). The EU has often hinted that such measures are in contradiction to the EU's freedom of movement policies. Why is the EU trying to erode it's own cultures? Because perhaps the EU prefers an English-unified continent under the guise of 'free movement'. Let's face it abolishing nationalistic cultural/linguistic protective laws in the EU would see a gradual but certain increase in English language immigrants in various EU countries- and a great number of those wouldn't even be native English speakers necessarily. Some pertinent links (old but still relevant): the-european-debate/">How the dominance of English kills the European debate domination.html">The side effects of English dominance 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4558 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 21 of 176 29 May 2014 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
But it does show that the market for German publishing is a highly-lucrative one. Vast amounts of literature is also published in Spanish but a typical German would have little interest in learning that language. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5412 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 22 of 176 29 May 2014 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@Doitsujin
Thanks for following along and providing some comments worth pondering :) With regards to English having symphology I want to borrow this quote from the link provided (which is well worth a decent glance/read) "The success or failure of a language has little to do with its inherent qualities and everything to do with the power of the people that speak it" - The Economist, “World Empire;” see also David Graddol, quoted in Skapinker. To be fair the article does provide a lot of arguments for and against the dominance of English while analyzing possible positive and negative effects article=1447&context=macintl">The rise of English: The language of Globalization in China and the European Union If link doesn't work search: "The rise of English: The language of Globalization in China and the European Union" by Anne Johnson Edited by PeterMollenburg on 29 May 2014 at 3:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5412 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 23 of 176 29 May 2014 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
This is a point but I'm not stating that English dominates to the point it over-rides national languages (in some cases like India it might- I know it does in terms of wikipedia editing from India occuring predominantly in English, not Hindi)... What i'm getting at here is that English is invasive to more of a degree on the international scene than other languages on a global scale. Ppl watch American films all over the world. Yes French cinema is very strong as is Indian and probably lucrative, but they all watch American films. German books, French books and Asian cinema probably do well too, but nothing comes close to music is English dominating the world scene- Euro-vision for example- a microcosm of the world? English literature is growing ever more. China is readily and enthusiastically taking up the 'American way'. I grew up rapping to 2pac Shakur, Heavy D and Notorious B.I.G. - in Australia! it's dominated by English here. It's ironic that we have one of the (or the) highest rates of language attrition in the world, yet the Australian government does next to nothing to save aboriginal languages (admittedly a difficult task, but still..). We apparantly have an amazing number of indigenous languages in Australia but i'd be lucky if I can recall one instance where I heard any of them spoken and I've not been confined to just one part of this country. Instead EVERYTHING is done in English here. In short many languages are doing well but English IMO is dominating or at least very present throughout the world and is only likely to increase, and that is no accident 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gollum87 Diglot Newbie Yugoslavia Joined 3873 days ago 31 posts - 46 votes Speaks: Serbian*, English Studies: Italian | Message 24 of 176 29 May 2014 at 5:28pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I don't have a problem with English dominance... People around the world should understand eachother..
What i don't like is the strong influence of English on other languages.. Recently, many English words have been used in Serbian slang (I guess it happens with other languages too)... I hope, in 100 years we won't speak a mix of English and our own language.. but I think it is normal for a strong and dominante language (and culture) to have an influence on smaller ones... 1 person has voted this message useful |
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