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The dark side of language dominance | ||
Tags: Language Map/Atlas | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4085 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes  Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 33 of 176 29 May 2014 at 9:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
Star Trek Star Wars Iron Man House MD Bigger budgets. Bigger shows. The "obsession" that you call, is only with Hollywood. BBC shows, even big ones like Dr Who are not as popular around the world. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7159 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 34 of 176 29 May 2014 at 10:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The more that I read this thread, the greater sense that I get that this is an Anglocentric linguistic variation of ideas expressed in Bruckner's The Tyranny of Guilt: An Essay on Western Masochism.
In my view, this kind of self-flagellation from some of us in the Anglosphere still leaves me feeling ambivalent (see this thread starting here where a native German speaker takes exception to Torbyrne's wistfulness (disappointment?) on the use of English in communication among groups that don't comprise native speakers of English). As much as I've championed Uralic and lesser-studied Slavonic languages, these languages and others will continue to be relevant and viable so long as people put in the work to learn, use and/or document them. Ripping or lamenting the position of English (or whatever "big" language whose status and/or cultural/political associations irk someone) won't by default lead to the survival let alone proliferation of Cantonese, Cornish, Maya, Skolt Saami, Tahitian or any language ("small" or not) that's dear to someone. Edited by Chung on 29 May 2014 at 10:48pm 9 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4892 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 35 of 176 29 May 2014 at 10:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think there are a lot less sinister reasons why English is so widespread! Or if not
less sinister, then at least not darker than any other potential world language. One thing that English, and to a lesser extent French, offers is a ticket to a wider world. Learning Japanese opens the doors to Japan, and learning Mandarin opens the doors to China, but learning English opens the doors to numerous international universities. The English-speaking colonies became powers in their own right (US, Australia, Canada, Hong Kong, India (one of the largest middle classes in the world), Kenya (relative to other sub Saharan countries)), which amplified the benefits for anyone learning English. France was certainly equally imperialist once upon a time, but her colonies never seemed to develop into economic powers. I'm so used to Spanish being the second language in the US that it surprises me that it's not as common outside North and South America. I think it could have been, but Spain established and enforced a feudal system in the new world that lasted centuries after it had disappeared in most of Europe. The Latin colonies remained stuck in the past until the revolutions, so there was never much economic incentive for outsiders to learn Spanish unless they had business in S. America. Arabic could've been the world language - at one time Arab universities were leading centers of arts, science, poetry, and philosophy. It's a flexible language, based upon how fast it spread and the way it integrated and melded with the indigenous languages of North Africa. But domination under the Ottomans, then the European colonial powers, and then the generals & dictators knocked Arabic out of the running. I'm not sure why Russian never spread further ... it seemed to be the second language of choice in the Eastern bloc, and among third-world Marxists, during the Soviet era. My impression is that Russian is now more a language for Russia rather than for the world. (note that these are all my amateur impressions and random thoughts, not a hard thesis that I would argue for and defend!!!) Edited by kanewai on 29 May 2014 at 11:21pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4668 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 36 of 176 29 May 2014 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well, yeah, I figured that the elephant on the other side of the Atlantic didn't need mentioning. :-) Edited by tastyonions on 29 May 2014 at 10:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5769 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 37 of 176 29 May 2014 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
So, the US had this colonial empire which spread English across the globe? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4293 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 38 of 176 29 May 2014 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
I have never heard of the latter two. And if BBC is so unpopular, then why is it on the television of basically every hotel wherein I have lodged around the world? As I have said, the last time that I have seen Anglophone films was 1997, with the Leoncardo DiCaprio and Celine Dion Titanic and Mr Bean. I felt that there are much better things to watch if this is the best of the best of the Anglophone media. The USA are not the dominant ones in music, how about the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Def Leppard, the Animals, Elton John, Peter and Gordon, Wings, John Lennon, Queen, Eric Clapton, George Michael....? I also am fairly sure that India (British India?) did not learn English because of the USA, I think that English already existed there before the USA were a nation. Edited by 1e4e6 on 29 May 2014 at 11:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4085 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 39 of 176 29 May 2014 at 11:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
A colonial empire is not necessary. Post world war II, with the cold war, and with its rising economic and scientific dominance (Neil Armstrong, Unix), the marketing of the American Dream, the influence of USA in developed countries did not require colonialization. USD is the global currency with all its concomitant benefits (the EUR has only recently emerged as a competitor). POTUS is called "Leader of the free world" by americans. Russian was taught in Russian block countries, French was taught in many EU nations, The languages did not stick. English is actually asked for now, with Koreans going as far as to have their kids tongues surgically altered. Because, USA. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| vonPeterhof Tetraglot Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4775 days ago 715 posts - 1527 votes Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Japanese, German Studies: Kazakh, Korean, Norwegian, Turkish | Message 40 of 176 29 May 2014 at 11:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
4 persons have voted this message useful |
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