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A Padawan learns Dutch/Ind./Fr. - TAC ’14 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Hekje Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4500 days ago 842 posts - 1330 votes  Speaks: English*, Dutch Studies: French, Indonesian | Message 225 of 568 04 June 2013 at 7:20pm | IP Logged |
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Yeah, "university of applied sciences" is quite misleading. Though some visual art makers
might like to think of their work as scientific research of a sort. (Debatable.) "Higher vocational education" is much closer, but in the United States it would have a strong connotation of advanced plumbing school or something of the sort. "College" is what I might use. I think I'll probably pass on the program though, so the specific terminology won't be a problem for long. Haha, always a bit harsh on your countrymen, Tarvos. :P 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4504 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 226 of 568 04 June 2013 at 7:34pm | IP Logged |
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It's not them that choose the poor terminology, it's the government and the educational
institutions. But this kind of thinking is why I absolutely hate it when Dutch institutions do the translating; they do not take into account what actual counterparts exist in UK/US terminology. If you are translating something to English (if you really feel a need for a general translation of something as specific as the Dutch educational system, which is just simply completely alien when you think of how to frame it in US terms) at least use a worldwide term or something that actually can be accurately represented by a term used in the anglophone world. It's an attempt to sound anglophone that has nothing to do with sounding anglophone at all. That's a pet peeve of mine; oh, the joys of being raised to speak English properly... Edited by tarvos on 04 June 2013 at 7:41pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Hekje Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4500 days ago 842 posts - 1330 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch Studies: French, Indonesian | Message 227 of 568 05 June 2013 at 6:37am | IP Logged |
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Well yeah, it's sort of hopeless to convey the full complexity of the Dutch educational
system through the names of the various institutions that make it up. The idea of schools being organized in a meritocratic manner is itself pretty foreign to the United States (can't speak for all Anglophone countries). I remember being shocked at first that application access to universities and hogescholen was restricted by what degree of high school you attended. There were impassioned debates about it and everything. :P Buut that's quite another topic. I find the most succinct way to explain is that there are three types of Dutch high schools, organized by aptitude. Only the highest two degrees do college, and the highest degree can go to university. I don't know if this is clear enough but that's probably already too much information for most people. Anyway. Today I read pages 11-24 (it starts on page 11) of Tirza by Arnon Grunberg. This is the third book by my count that I've started in the last semester - and I haven't finished the other two yet - but screw it; in the immortal words of Bon Jovi, it's my life. I will start and finish books as I please. I've just been circling some unknown words and phrases as I go. My comprehension in this book is great compared to other works - Grunberg writes relatively plainly. Still, there are 2-3 words per page that significantly impede my understanding of the sentence by virtue of their opacity. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Hekje Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4500 days ago 842 posts - 1330 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch Studies: French, Indonesian | Message 228 of 568 10 June 2013 at 4:32am | IP Logged |
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Up to page 35 in Tirza. The other book I'm reading right now is Foucault's
Discipline and Punish (since this is a language learning forum, I should clarify that this is not the French original), and together with Tirza they're a pretty uplifting pair. One book about an estranged mother returning home to her child after taking off for three years, the other about the development of the modern prison and the movement of punishment from an external application to a process of inner rehabilitation. Both fairly gruesome, but that's kind of what I like from my summer reading. Like, not even joking here. Discipline and Punish is the first English-language book that I've read for pleasure in the past year and a half, and it's just crazy how fast it flies compared to Dutch novels. I don't know, it really highlights to me how far I have to go with Dutch before it's as natural to me as English. Honestly, I've become a bit frustrated with Dutch lately. Speaking-wise, I think I really improved over the month that I was able to practice Dutch on a daily basis (incidental to the gift of the speaker's lovely company). Now that that's not available, though, I can just feel my speaking abilities starting to stagnate. Ugh. But does that even matter? I was reading the "Fluency overrated/ B1-B2 enough for most" thread in the General Discussion and really reflecting on this. Sure, B2 (where I still think I sit right now) isn't as eloquent as I would like. But maybe, for my purposes right now, it's enough to maintain it. Meh. Ook weet ik dat ik hier in het Nederlands moet schrijven. Beter zo. Ik vraag me maar af: als ik actieve vaardigheden niet nodig heb, is het dan toch nodig om spreken en zo te oefenen? Is het dan niet genoeg om Nederlands goed te lezen en verstaan? Of is het allemaal een soort opgeven, wat ik natuurlijk niet wil? Misschien moet ik maar doorgaan, dan komt alles wel goed. Het is alleen maar moeilijk om (nu) jaren te besteden met een taal en om te beseffen dat je niet echt ver van je vertrekspunt bent. Of zo voel ik me. Mrghhh. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4504 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 229 of 568 10 June 2013 at 8:04am | IP Logged |
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Doorgaan moet je sowieso, en je doet het nog steeds prima hoor.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Hekje Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4500 days ago 842 posts - 1330 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch Studies: French, Indonesian | Message 230 of 568 17 June 2013 at 4:20am | IP Logged |
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Bedankt Tarvos. Het spijt me dat een derde van mijn log klagen is. Leuk om je eigen log
te lezen, trouwens. :P So I'm on page 84 of Tirza. The story's getting, uh, spicier as we get along, and also easier to read. Pretty sweet. Tirza's a pretty thick book (a bit over 400 pages), so the experience makes a natural parallel to Bonita Avenue from last summer, which was of a similar length. I notice that, while reading at a very similar pace, I can understand much more of the novel with greater and greater clarity. With Bonita Avenue I was still able to understand the main flow of the storyline without much difficulty, but there were definitely whole passages of action that were pretty confusing. With Tirza I feel like I'm understanding the story in a much more nuanced way. Not really missing out as much. So I guess as a counterpoint to my last entry, it does get better. Yay. By the way, I can't find if I mentioned this before on this blog, but I find that recording how long I read every day seems to encourage me to read more. I've been keeping a little log on my phone since June 4 and I feel like I've become significantly more aware of my own process (and progress) in that time. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Hekje Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4500 days ago 842 posts - 1330 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch Studies: French, Indonesian | Message 231 of 568 18 June 2013 at 3:09am | IP Logged |
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Okay, so I'm on page 155 of Tirza now. The book is getting so crazy my eyes are
practically glued to the page. I honestly have no idea what the remaining 300 pages could possibly contain because he's already squeezed in marital infidelity, wayward daughters, deep, existential sadness, racial and socioeconomic tension, disastrous sex, and Schiphol. What is even left? I also (text) chatted a wee bit in Dutch today, which was nice. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Hekje Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4500 days ago 842 posts - 1330 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch Studies: French, Indonesian | Message 232 of 568 19 June 2013 at 7:26am | IP Logged |
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Tirza pagina 210. Het boek wordt steeds leuker en wat mij betreft was het al bijzonder leuk. De
spanning is ondraagelijk. In principe zitten we in het midden van een feest maar het feestje speelt zich ondraagelijk langzaam af gezien dat er elke halfuur een nieuwe nachtmerrie uit de verleden tijd wordt hersteld. Verder komt het geeërde kind, Tirza, echt veel te laat. Ik probeer deze zomer om gezonde gewoonten te ontwikkelen. Eén van deze gezonde gewoonten is om mijn Nederlandstalige boekje nog altijd bij me te hebben. Ik werk nu voorlopig in Washington, D.C. en elke ochtend moet ik een anderhalf uur reizen per trein naar de stad (en nog een anderhalf uur terug 's avonds, natuurlijk). Zeker bestaat er geen beter tijd om boeken te lezen, vooral als er te veel mensen om je heen zijn, lees maar een prachtige roman en ontsnap ze! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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