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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3884 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes  Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 121 of 180 24 June 2014 at 2:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
And that makes it worthwhile for the other person. I still get some practice in class. I am fine, thanks for asking. I am following your blog, keep the progress up!!! Hugo German is a bit crazy. In our class, we take 10% of a Hugo chapter equivalent, and spend a week on it. I took a note of the students in the class. 35% have dropped it. As far as I can tell, they were all who had worked on German previously (longer than a year). The ones who have remained in the class are mostly the naturally talented ones, who have picked up German in a very short amount of time. There is one person who has worked on German for like 4 months, and is finding the current pace slow. And I am getting my behind kicked after having worked for 8 months. Makes me wonder if I am being foolish devoting so much time to German. Perhaps I should just admit defeat and direct the time toward more fruitful ventures.
Thanks. Looking forward to getting even more discouraged. I have a couple of dual language readers, will read them before I move onto native material. Edited by Gemuse on 24 June 2014 at 6:50am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4811 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 122 of 180 24 June 2014 at 2:48am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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You're not foolish!
You're just taking your time and it will pay off. The key is to keep going, unlike the 35% you mentioned. :-) How about ditching children's books and instead taking something you love in English, perhaps something you've read repeatedly? Fun will get you through the hardships of missing vocab, too advanced areas etc. And you'll have much easier time guessing things from context if you know it well. Or, if you want something simple for start, go to a library and borrow graded readers. Those will do the job until you feel ready for the real texts even though they are not that fun. I don't know why so many people think that books for children=easy books. They use their own specific vocab, they are often not that gramatically easy, unless the books are stupid, they tend not to be fun for many adults. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| soclydeza85 Senior Member United States Joined 3709 days ago 357 posts - 502 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 123 of 180 24 June 2014 at 3:33am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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There's an old saying, "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time." In other words: don't look at where you are in the big picture, it's very easy to get discouraged that way. Instead, focus on where you are now. Progress little by little each day and before you know it you'll find you have already eaten half of the elephant (i.e., you're at a proficient level). One step at a time, man.
And that makes it worthwhile for the other person. I still get some practice in class. It doesn't have to be a long-winded conversation. Just go down to the local store, talk to the cashier: Guten Tag! Heute ist ein schöner Tag, ja? Habe ich das richtig? Verzeihung, ich lerne noch! Also dann, aufwiedersehen! Write it out beforehand and practice what you'd say if you have to. There's nothing more rewarding than using your newly acquired language skills with an actual native. It'll definitely give you inspiration, even if you screw up. And don't compare yourself to others, focus on you and your own progress. It's not a race. I'd hate to see you give up after all of the effort you've put in. I'll bet you're much better at German than you think. Keep going! Edited by soclydeza85 on 24 June 2014 at 3:36am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| AlOlaf Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4950 days ago 491 posts - 617 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2 Studies: Danish | Message 124 of 180 24 June 2014 at 7:02am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think you’re on the right track. You ask lots of questions, not just to get the right answer, but because you want to know why German works the way it does. To me, that means you’re on your way to understanding the language, as opposed to just amassing information to regurgitate on tests. If you feel your progress is slow, I think it’s because you’re taking pains to thoroughly learn the material.
One thing that helps me is to seek out stuff in German that would interest me if it were in English. I don’t know about you, but I’m very visual, so movies in German with German subtitles were it for me, and not just German movies. Germans overdub anything that moves, American, French, British, Skandinavian, you name it. A movie you’ve already seen in your native language that’s been dubbed into German can be good, if it’s one you like. Just out of curiosity, what is your native language? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4335 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 125 of 180 24 June 2014 at 8:35am | IP Logged | ||||||||
In my experience in classes the only people who did well were the ones who had-time/were-motivated-enough to do lots of homework after class, and perhaps had a leg up in other ways (e.g., having a partner that they would talk to out of hours). I think talent or lack thereof is just an excuse people make. To learn German you need to do 1500-3000 hours of study. That's a lot of work and until you've done that many hours you have no right to say you don't have talent.
No, but I think you may be foolish to continue with classes much longer. Edited by patrickwilken on 24 June 2014 at 9:08am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4811 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 126 of 180 24 June 2014 at 10:49am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I don't agree patrick. I've seen it more than enough times that talent does have a lot to do with it. Let me explain:
The harder a class and subject is, the more it is about the work and the less help can you expect from your talents, iq, short term memory and so on. Therefore biochemistry or pathology classes at medschool are like 5% about talent and 95% about hard work (and that's why I am so bad at school). Very intensive and demanding language classes, perhaps like the FSI, may be close to that side of the scale as well. Usual language classes are nowhere near that. They are meant not to drive away too many learners/customers, the pace isn't too fast, they are meant for usual people to keep up with, not just those with university education. Therefore they are much easier. Most people going to usual evening classes do very little homework or extra activities in the meantime. Really. They pay for classes and expect to be taught, not to learn. Therefore their success/lack of it is more like 85% talent/iq/short term memory and 15% the extra work. But I totally agree that Gemuse might profit from reconsidering the classes from the next semester on. Perhaps a private tutor and 1 on 1 classes may be a much better option. Or learning on his own and visiting a conversation club or something like that regularily. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4335 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 127 of 180 24 June 2014 at 11:14am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I was really referring to lack-of-talent being used as an excuse to not be able to learn a language, rather than relative performance in class. I think of it as equivalent to someone saying they are fat because of genetics. Yes, perhaps there is some truth to that, but you should first stop drinking soft drinks and pizza before you make the claim. In the case of language learning you need to do a lot of work before you can claim you are not able to learn a language. While I agree about the ease of classes, I was badgered a lot by other students when I was in language classes because I understood the reading. But I only knew the reading because I had learnt the vocabulary with Anki before class. It was nothing magical and certainly nothing to do with talent - though the other students certainly pretended to themselves that I was somehow more talented presumably to make themselves feel better for not keeping up with class. I knew two people who did well in my Goethe class years ago: one was basically doing lots of homework at home (the rest of us had to work during the day); and the second was Swedish and got a huge discount in learning the language. It's not to say that talent may/may-not play a role, but I think people throw this around as an excuse way too much. Gemuse: I didn't meant to sound hard, I just think you shouldn't sort of give up at this point. I do personally think that you (like many many many other students) are focusing too much on grammar and formal lessons. I think people do this because schools and other language learners encourage this, and also because they get a sense of immediate reward when they finish a lesson and feel they have learnt a particular grammar point. But the problem is that you can learn grammar (or go to school) for the rest of your life and never learn the language. I was absolutely amazed last year how well I could read Harry Potter without being so strong in grammar. Today what stops me 99% of the time understanding a sentence is my vocabulary, not my grammar. If you want to give up that's obviously your choice, but it's ridiculous to say it's a was a waste of time to try learning German when you live in the country. Edited by patrickwilken on 24 June 2014 at 11:16am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3884 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 128 of 180 24 June 2014 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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One of the reasons for my doubts is that I will most likely be leaving Germany in a little more than a year. At the same time, I recognize that this is a golden opportunity to be in TL country, for a major language, that not many people get.
Tereza, graded readers are next on my agenda. Regarding the class students, I have found there to be 4 groups. Group 1: Talented and want to learn the language. Do not put a lot of effort outside of class, but are very engaged in class. Often skip classes. Group 2: Talented, but not very motivated to learn the language. Do not put a lot of effort inside or outside class. Group 3. Not talented, but want to learn the language. Put a lot of effort inside and outside class. Rarely skip classes. Group 4. Not talented, but want to learn the language. Put a lot of effort inside class, but not outside. Rarely skip classes. Group 4 students are the worst performers. The discrepancy between them and the rest becomes evident very soon, and after a few weeks they cannot do the in class group exercises. Since they want to learn the language, this not being able to participate in class is very hard on them. They give up first. Group 2: The next worst. In A1 they seem to be almost on par with the best. But since they are not that engaged in class, they start falling behind in A2. Once they have fallen behind sufficiently, they give up as there is no motivation to catch up. Group 3: They hang on. Their hard work enables them to pass from class to class, sometimes repeating classes. Group 4: The top of the class. Often skip levels. Master lessons seemingly effortlessly. I had originally planned to be at least B2 before I left Germany, but slowly I am having to accept that I am too slow and will only be B1. Just dont like being one of the slow kids izzall. PS: Thanks for taking the time to post the replies everyone! Edited by Gemuse on 24 June 2014 at 8:27pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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