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Ugla soars higher TAC13 Sakura桜 & Romulan | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5024 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 129 of 156 17 February 2013 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
OTOH those studying Russian... ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6418 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 130 of 156 17 February 2013 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
What happens to Russian squid? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6418 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 131 of 156 17 February 2013 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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My experiences with the Bloodhound Method so far
I think a large part of my problem before was a lack of vocabulary. I’ve just started the Core 6000 on iKnow, so I know about 5000 other their words plus a few hundred that I haven’t seen there. It’s simply not enough. So, I’m going to increase my efforts to learn more words. I was using Kiyo's recordings. They are very well done and would be ideal if I had the vocabulary. He does recordings mostly of stories available from Aozora which are, naturally, classics. He often provides links to the stories there, so I decided to look at a couple of them. I could only understand about half the words, so it’s no surprise that I don’t understand the audio versions. Now I’ve started using Kuni's Sherlock Holmes stories. They are also very well done, but his reading style is a tad more dramatic than Kiyo’s and he does them as episodes with music at the beginning and end of each track. Kiyo’s are probably better for the bloodhound method in that you can’t tell where one track ends and the next begins plus the style is “smoother” with less drama, so there is really nothing to interrupt the flow. If only I had the vocabulary, they would be great. But Kuni’s are easier in terms of vocabulary and since they are Sherlock Holmes stories, I have some idea about what will happen even if I haven’t read the story before. I managed this time to begin understanding about a third of the way through. I drifted a little in and out for reasons I will explain below, but mostly it wasn’t too bad until the neighbor turned on the vacuum cleaner toward the end. My impressions on what actually happens: I start by focusing and following every word, often subvocalizing in order to focus better. After a while, I sometimes start to see the words. Sometimes, I see kanji quite large and clear; other times they are fuzzy. Other times I see something like the graphic representation of sounds that you see in a sound program or on some stereos. Other times I just see fuzzy foggy lumps of words or a simple rope moving past my eyes. Eventually, I get to a state where I recognize the words (the sounds) and the meaning, but they go in one ear and out the other. Even though I hear and understand almost everything, it just disappears right away, so that if I stopped listening and tried to say what was happening in the story, I would only have a very vague idea, or no idea at all. Then, finally comes the stage where I hear and understand and also am able to register and remember what is happening. Any remaining images of lumpy words floating by are replaced with images of scenes in the story. Difficulties Listening with my eyes: I’m a very visual person and reading always comes more easily than listening. So when I see those fuzzy words floating by, I try very hard to read them. This causes eye-strain which is very uncomfortable and distracts me from actually getting to the stage where I understand the story. I also have a tendency to try to pull on the rope of words as it goes by or to try to look ahead. I think this is also related to reading in a way. When reading, it is normal to look a little ahead, so while you are reading one words you are also looking at the next couple of words as a kind of preview or something. That doesn’t work very well for listening. Distracting thoughts: All kinds of thoughts pop into my head all the time and interrupt my focus. It often takes me a while to get out of my head and into a story in any case, but it’s much worse when it’s a story I can only barely understand. I also get distracted by the technique itself. I think too much at times about what I’m doing and how I’m doing it and wondering if it’s starting to work yet. And I can get distracted when I do notice that it’s starting to work. Outside distractions: This one is a given and there is nothing I can do about it. There is nowhere I can go that I am guaranteed quiet, so I just have to hope for the best. I have noticed that when I manage to relax and let it happen rather than trying to make it happen, it works quite well. The problem is that trying to relax does just the opposite and I haven’t gotten used to the method to the point where it happens very easily on its own . When it does work, I’m not making any effort to listen to each word or to understand. I hear each word come in, but I don’t try to grab it and pull it in. I also don’t focus on trying to understand what is being said. I just let my mind create the scenes all by itself. The trick is learning to let go of control and allow it to happen. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6418 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 132 of 156 17 February 2013 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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More Observations
Until this weekend, I’ve been mostly listening while walking. And now after trying listening while sitting on the couch, I think the walking itself is actually important. Walking definitely takes care of the eye-strain problem at least. I don’t see the words when I’m looking where I’m going. The mental distraction is also perhaps a little less, but it was still there. This weekend I’d started trying to stop the subvocalizing relatively early in the listening session as the effort of doing it seems to hold me back from that magic place where the listening becomes effortless. However, I find that it is necessary to start up again immediately as soon as I notice an irrelevant thought come into my head. Once I’m back on track I gradually go over to just feeling the sounds (mostly the vowels) in my mouth. I’m not sure how to describe it, but it feels like the sounds resonating in my ears are actually resonating in my mouth. In order to do this it is necessary to walk with a slightly open mouth. This state of simply feeling the sounds doesn’t seem to hold me back so much from going over to understanding rather than just hearing. I think when I’m less distractible than I am today, I won’t need to do as much of the subvocalizing and it will be enough just to feel the sounds. As far as walking goes, it is best to have a place without distractions like people and cars, if possible. It’s also ideal to have a fairly boring background so you won’t be tempted to look around too much. Looking at the ground ahead of you is good. The surface should be relatively even as well. You should walk at a comfortable, but fairly brisk and even pace with your back held straight. Walking uphill or on a level path is best. Downhill is much more difficult. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5024 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 133 of 156 17 February 2013 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Come on! You were the one who said explaining jokes takes the fun out of them ;) Oh well, not that 'in Russia it's the other way around' jokes or retorts have much of a linguistic base anyway, but I find them very funny sometimes, and I just thought it was a well-timed, if not awesomely funny reply: those studying Russian might soon learn how people stay away from squids ... seriously, didn't you imagine the rest? ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6418 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 134 of 156 26 February 2013 at 11:13am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Here I am, back again. I was a bit depressed for the past two weeks. It was only a fairly mild depression, about halfway between wanting to be dead and considering actively doing something about it, but after the first few days, I could no longer face writing here or logging on Twitter. I did manage to study a bit though, but it got less and less each day until finally reaching a low of 16 minutes and 33 seconds. Then, I woke up today and life was glorious. Hopefully it will stay that way for a little while at least.
I think I’ve probably given up any chance of a first place finish in the 6WC, especially since I have a bunch of appointments and other things I have to do in the next few weeks, so I probably won’t be able to catch up again. The appointments can’t be helped, but some of the other things I could have done earlier had I not been so lazy. So, now I’m off to catch up on all the logs I haven’t been reading and maybe try to study a bit as well. I’m already over 16 minutes and 33 seconds so far today, so that’s a good sign. I need to try to get some exercise as well. Yuck. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6418 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 135 of 156 26 February 2013 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Guess what! It turns out that the cabin in the Sherlock Holmes story "Black Peter" is not full of cheese and unicorns.
My listening comprehension is improving :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5780 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 136 of 156 26 February 2013 at 8:13pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Welcome back! I was beginning to wonder where you had disappeared to and I'm glad you're back in a happier place again.
I think it's quite impressive that you are still holding second place for target language (the only language that really counts!) on the 6WC despite the break though! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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