Super Challenge/Adv, Cha. Reg, Upd, 2013 (Language Learning Log) Language Learning Forum

Super Challenge/Adv, Cha. Reg, Upd, 2013
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Jeffers
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Message 161 of 199

26 August 2013 at 11:06pm | IP Logged

I have had an idea for a while for how a super challenge could work more easily and smoothly. Regardless of how many books or films you set as your goal, the webpage counts your films and books. For every 25 books you read or 25 films you watch you get a star in that column. If you read another 25 books, you'll have a second star, and so on. When you hit your goal you get a gold star in that column, but you can still add silver stars. I think of this as a more flexible system. It also rewards progress.

Personally, I chose a half challenge in French because I doubted I could read 50 books. However, I still wanted to watch 100 films. It looks like I will definitely make the 100 film goal. As for reading, I don't think I'll make it, but my pace is definitely quickening! I'm definitely going to read 100 French books eventually, but I couldn't have done it in these 20 months. Kanewai, I'm guessing you started your French more than two years ago? If not, I'm impressed and jealous.

(I haven't read all of these posts as I just discovered this thread, so I hope I'm not repeating here.)

Edited by Jeffers on 26 August 2013 at 11:07pm
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kanewai
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Message 162 of 199

27 August 2013 at 8:57am | IP Logged

I like the star idea a lot! And I re-started French in June 2011, and had done Assimil
French with Ease, half of Français en pratique, and fifteen lessons of FSI before the
Challenge started. That all helped a lot, especially the second Assimil.
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patrickwilken
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Germany
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Message 163 of 199

27 August 2013 at 9:14am | IP Logged

kanewai wrote:

I looked over my notes to see where I've made the big breakthroughs. The numbers are
approximate, but I think they might help in planning for the next challenge:

0 - 10 books: I can read easy novelists (Jules Verne) on my kindle, but it's
slow going and I use the dictionary a lot. I am completely reliant on parallel texts
for literature.

10: I try my first hard cover books, but have English-language back-ups. I
still have to check the English version often - I'll read a page in French, check the
English, and go back and re-read it in French. But I feel like a little bird learning
to fly, and can occasionally read whole chapters in French without having to pause.

30: I can read Harry Potter at a decent speed, and I make the final break away
from parallel texts. I still have a couple downloaded that I use as a back-up.

50: I notice a huge improvement. I can read some hard-cover books and
bandes dessinées without being completely reliant on a dictionary, but I still
need a kindle (and the pop-up dictionary) for the more challenging authors. For
the first time I feel like I'm reading rather than struggling to read.

70: I notice another huge improvement. More and more I can read for pleasure -
it's actually relaxing now to spend a Sunday afternoon on the couch reading French. I
still like having English language back-ups for harder books, mostly to check my
comprehension.

(currently at 77)

100: ??? I'm hoping there are more breakthroughs to come!

Just based on my experiences, I'd really encourage people to aim for the full 100, even
if it means having a 24-month period. But I see rewire's point - people reading in
Japanese (or Arabic, or Chinese, or Sanskrit, etc.) would definitely have different
goalposts.

I started the challenge at pretty much A1, and spent a lot of time watching films first, and only started reading in November last year.

I have never read paper books, or used parallel text. I have found the Kindle with a pop-dictionary really helpful (if people want to try this I would recommend the e-ink over the paperwhite for ease of use of the dictionary).

For some months I was reading about a book a month (so the three Hunger Games books, followed by the easier Harry Potter books). In book 5 of the Harry Potter series (probably about 4000 pages into the challenge) I suddenly realized that I didn't need a dictionary any more and my reading speed made a huge jump and was able to read the last two books in the series in a couple of weeks.

I have now moved on to more adult literature and my speed has slowed down again, and I need a dictionary, but I can still polish off a 400 page Murakami book in about a week.

I am curious where I'll be at the end of the challenge at 10000 pages.

I like the idea of stars too.
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Cavesa
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Message 164 of 199

27 August 2013 at 4:23pm | IP Logged

From what I remember (and I remember the breakthroughs quite well because I was excited like a child at Christmas)

0-10: I can read a BD or an easier book with difficulties. I don't understand about 15% (might be different if you start reading earlier), or even more. I can read even something more difficult if I really really want to and it's worth all the trouble.

10-25 I can see huge progress, less and less words require either searching in a dictionary or guessing from context. I can read books of easier genres, translations and so on and enjoy them.

25-30+ I can read quite anything with just one or two unknown words per page, less when it comes to easier books. I can read complex articles related to my field.

50+ I don't realize I am reading in L2 after a few minutes of becoing part of a good story.

The truth is that I have tried only "easy" languages so far. I think the numbers will be different for German.

I like the stars idea! But I consider not joining the bot again. I am quite content with the system I have developped for myself.

Edited by Cavesa on 27 August 2013 at 4:23pm
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kanewai
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Message 165 of 199

24 September 2013 at 12:12am | IP Logged

August / September Update - Three months to go! I'm finally ahead of the curve with my movies, and am still a bit behind in my reading.

French Books

- Mémoires d'Hadrien. Marguerite Yourcenar,1951. A fantastic recreation of the last days of the emperor Hadrian. One of the few books that I am sure I will read again.
- Candide, ou l'optimisme. Voltaire, 1759. Candide is a lot more raunchy and sacrilegious than I remembered from college.
- Les misérables. Victor Hugo, 1862. I finally finished! I started the first volume in August of last year, and thought I'd finish all five by Christmas. I misjudged that one. It's a big sprawling mess of a book, and I'm glad I tackled it.

Bandes dessinées

- Persepolis 3 dealt with Marjane's experiences as an 18-year old refugee in Vienna, and her adventures with mean frauleins, meaner nuns, and stoned anarchist boyfriends.

French movies

My subscription with Hulu is about to expire, and so I just started picking French films randomly - and had a better success rate than when I consciously picked movies I thought I'd like.

flics I liked:

- Le beau serge (Claude Chabrol,1958) - A man returns to his village, and discovers that his best friend is now a the mean town drunk.
- Les demoiselles de Rochefort (Jacques Demy, 1967) - A bubbly French musical.
- Z (Costa-Gavras,1969) - Banned in Greece; the story of the military's involvement in a political assassination.
- Le bonheur (Agnès Varda, 1965) - A pretty pastel-colored movie about a beautiful couple. It looks like an impressionist painting come to life, but the moviee ventually goes into a dark place.
- Orphée (Jean Cocteau, 1949) - Lady Death falls in love with a mortal.
- Les misérables (Raymond Bernard, 1934) - A 4.5 hour epic. It captures the feel of a lot (but not all) of the novel. Not everything works: Cosette is too much a manic pixie dream girl (I didn't even know they had them in 1934!), and the film slows down at the end. Aside from that, this is full of big scenes and big acting. Highly recommended.

mixed feelings:

- Au hasard Balthazar (Robert Bresson, 1966) - Bresson didn't like his actors to "act," so he hired amateurs to read the dialogue. This gives his films a strange, disconnected vibe. I can appreciate his films, but don't know that I actually like or enjoy them. This is the life story of a donkey, and the mean, cruel, and generally ignorant humans around him.

didn't like / hated:

- Trois couleurs: Bleu (Krzysztof Kieslowski, 1993). An art film. 'Nuf said.
- Et Dieu ... créa la femme (Roger Vadim, 1957). This is the movie that made Brigitte Bardot famous. And I don't get it ... she just seemed like a dumb whiny brat to me.

Current count:

French Super Challenge: 86% (82.5 books, 89.6 films)
Spanish Half Super Challenge: 33% (7.4 books, 28.6 films) (little change)

Bonus!: If anyone is looking for an English-language sci-fi graphic novel, check out Saga. (Brian Vaughan & Fiona Staples, 2012). Two soldiers from opposite sides of an intergalactic war fall in love, and attempt to escape the fighting with their newborn child. So far it's been a great story.

Edited by kanewai on 24 September 2013 at 2:26am
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Jeffers
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Message 166 of 199

25 September 2013 at 8:01am | IP Logged

kanewai wrote:

- Et Dieu ... créa la femme (Roger Vadim, 1957). This is the movie that made Brigitte Bardot famous. And I don't get it ... she just seemed like a dumb whiny brat to me.

I felt exactly the same way about Le mépris (Jean-Luc Goddard, 1963). Supposed to be one of the greatest French films of all time, and I just found Brigitte Bardot to be annoying.
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emk
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Message 167 of 199

01 November 2013 at 11:09pm | IP Logged

Finished!

I wrapped up my Super Challenge by blowing through 223 pages of La Planète des singes in under 5 hours this afternoon, after a long and busy week of work. That makes five books in one month, including the stunning alternate history Le Déchronologue, plus La Ponte de la rivière Kwaï, Le Père Porcher (translated from English) and volume two of Le Puits des mémoires.

You can see my books on the the surrealix site.

For me, the turning points were roughly:

500 pages: I could more-or-less read in French.
3,000 pages: I could read comfortably, managing about 30 pages per hour.
10,000 pages: I usually read with 99.5% comprehension, averaging less than one unknown word per page even in some moderately challenging books.

And finally, my thanks to Solfrid Cristin for inspiring me to start this adventure. As I wrote in my log:

emk wrote:

The Super Challenge was an awesome idea, and I'm amazed at how much it has helped my French. To give you an idea of how much I've learned, check out this quote from February 2012 on page one of my log, less than 6 weeks before the start of the Super Challenge:

Quote:

I've now read 52% of Le Tour du Monde. It's actually getting harder—I'm running
into sentences that don't make sense, even after I look up all the words. Perhaps 60%
of the text is clear, another 30% makes sense if I think about it or look up some
words, and 10% is very difficult to understand. Whenever Verne starts talking about
steamboats or tropical plants, I start skimming.

So 10,000 pages absolutely make a huge difference. Now, what will be my next adventure?

Once again, my many thanks to all who helped organize this challenge, and to everybody who participated. It's been so much fun doing this with you.
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Tamise
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Message 168 of 199

02 November 2013 at 10:49am | IP Logged

Well done, emk! It's nice to see how you think the challenge has helped, and it's been fun hearing your recommendations (several of which are on my wish list at Amazon.fr for when I finish reading the books I have).

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