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How much time studying vocabulary? | ||
Tags: Time to learn | Vocabulary learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4327 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes  Studies: German | Message 177 of 350 18 May 2015 at 10:21pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I disagree. I had a lot of success reading using a Kindle with a pop-up dictionary. My reading speed was hardly effected, and I am sure this was much quicker than generating and running SRS cards. I know because I did both. ;) The newer touch screen Kindles might be a slower, but the older versions with a cursor (you can still buy them on Ebay) are a joy to read with. At a certain point it is really nice to just read with a paperbook and not worry about looking up every word you don't know and just immerse yourself in the literature. Even if this is less effective for vocabulary acquisition. ;) Edited by patrickwilken on 18 May 2015 at 10:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4703 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 178 of 350 18 May 2015 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Actually there was a fascinating study someone linked here 3-4 years ago (I might have posted the link myself) in which they compared four methods of gaining vocabulary, but I can't remember all four methods. One was singing along with songs, another was reading comics. The interesting upshot was that all four methods produced almost identical gains in the same amount of time. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6703 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 179 of 350 19 May 2015 at 12:00am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Indeed you did, Jeffers:
Online book on vocabulary size (2012 05 January) At the end of the day, I suppose any method will enable you to reach your goal. Do you remember how long the experiment lasted? You say "30 words per hour" (in the post) - was that already during the first hour (regardless of method), or after some hours getting used to the experiment? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4703 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 180 of 350 19 May 2015 at 1:13am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Thanks for finding that, it's too bad the original link is dead. The experiment was carried out over some time (I seem to remember it being something in the neighbourhood of 6-8 weeks), and each participant did their activity for the same amount of time each week. Testing was done at the beginning and at the end of the experiment, so rates of learning may have varied over the course of the experiment. Edited by Jeffers on 19 May 2015 at 1:27am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5030 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 181 of 350 19 May 2015 at 1:17am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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If everyone could please go back and read my previous posts, you will see at no point have I told anyone not to read. I have not said to "read as little as possible". I have not told anyone not to study grammar, I have never said memorization of lists is the only thing required to learn a language. In fact I have specifically pointed out on a number of occasions that you shouldn't rely on memorisation of vocabulary as the sole task for learning. I have said that the quicker you complete your vocabulary reviews the more time you can dedicate to grammar or other language study.
What I have said is, If you want to learn a large number of words in your target language in the shortest possible time it is more efficient to memorise a list of words using the production card method than to read a book. I have not said you shouldn't read whatever you want, comic books literature, recipes, or Le Monde. I haven't said don't study grammar, or hire a tutor, or go to classes, or listen to podcasts, or stop doing all the other stuff it takes to learn a language. I said it is more EFFICIENT to review a large number of words from a LIST than from a BOOK. I have not told you where to get the words, I have not said you have to use frequency lists, although statistically it would be a good idea. I haven't said you shouldn’t read. I'm telling you if you want to quickly increase the amount of vocabulary available to you, then there are other methods more efficient than reading. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5102 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 182 of 350 19 May 2015 at 4:21am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Thank you, Patrick. Nice to know I was doing well.
You're guesstimating the % one can absorb, which you say is 10% and I can say it's much less and we won't get anywhere. A more accurate estimation would probably be your actual experience - reaching B2 reading in 2 years. With all that massive input you did (were you already in Berlin?), you reached 8000 words in 2 years. (Just assume B2=8000 words, or read it as X and do the algebra if you like). Your massive input included a movie a day, and real-life conversations if you were already in Berlin, so maybe you only learned 2k a year through reading? Why the difference? I think the 10% absorbtion rate was an overestimation, and maybe the 1250 unknown words were actually lemmas and thus inflated. And most importantly, are we comparing reading 36 pages a day (100 minutes?) with 15 minutes a day of SRS?? Sometimes I even wonder if we are using the same definition of "efficiency". I am aware that many people take it to mean "effectiveness". "Efficiency" to me means (units of results)/(units of time) or "results per minute invested". So actual time spent is an important factor. Edited by smallwhite on 19 May 2015 at 6:50am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6391 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 183 of 350 19 May 2015 at 4:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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You didn't tell people not to read. And smallwhite didn't either. But I think it's important to remember the reasons behind her method/system, one of which is the desire to minimize reading.
One of the most misleading phrases on this thread is probably "it doesn't take time away from reading, it lets me read sooner!" Edited by Serpent on 19 May 2015 at 4:27am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5102 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 184 of 350 19 May 2015 at 4:45am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
- should one want to - and thus maximize, say, listening, speaking, time available for further languages and for going to football matches. You don't even know how much I read. But however much, you can read twice as much if you like. There's nothing in "my method" to stop that. You can. The only difference is you'll theoretically end up with 16k words in 4 months :D
You're like a moving target. There's a new the most important question and a new one thing that worries you most and now a most misleading phrase in every one of your posts. Every time I thought I've addressed the most important X, I get a new one. I like that quote of mine up there. I wish I had written it to rhyme. @@ #=# @@ #=@@ #=# @@ #=@@ @@ #=# @@ #=@@ #=# @@ #=@@ I feel mission completed! Iversen supports early bulk learning. Jeffers considers it efficient to take a book and study the list of words before reading the text. I use deliberate vocabulary memorisation to plug holes of the colander and s_allard says he takes notes and reviews them, too. Serpent understands that SRSing can reduce reading time. Rdearman experienced the process and felt the benefits. Patrick showed that my results were at least as good as his. I'm happy :D Edited by smallwhite on 19 May 2015 at 6:51am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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