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How much time studying vocabulary? | ||
Tags: Time to learn | Vocabulary learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| chaotic_thought Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 3335 days ago 129 posts - 274 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Dutch, French | Message 329 of 350 30 May 2015 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
I do something similar for my courses. New words are recorded only for textbooks. To solve the problems you allude to I use the following format: prendre_1: je drois _______ le 65 / prendre prendre_2: vous desirez _______ un apéritif / prendre mettre_1: (p123) mettre_2: (p124) comprendre_1: (p125) comprendre_2: (p127) The first field is the word key, which is simply an arbitrary symbol to distinguish between multiple "mental entries" of a word in one's brain. It is my view that there is not such a thing as a "correct" way to distinguish between such entries other than to give an example. For example, you implied that to you prendre_1 is "having to do with transportation", but is this really the case? Maybe I might use the same expression even if taking the 65 on foot. Ultimately only increased experience with the language will answer questions of word choice in a long-lasting and intuitive way. To avoid wasting time I leave most entries blank or just write a page number. I do this when the entry is "too easy" or "too well studied". For example, some words in the language are either too cumbersome to explain or are so obvious to the point that an explanation is no longer necessary. As an example, if I wanted to record the fact that I learned "tu" and "vous" in French I could write the following: tu_1: (p1) vous_1: (p1) There is no possible flashcard-prompting information that I could write for these words to get them to pop into my head or to remind me how to use them correctly. If I truly have forgotten them, then my only reasonable option would be to go back to page 1 of that textbook and read about this topic. Edited by chaotic_thought on 30 May 2015 at 2:01pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5269 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 330 of 350 31 May 2015 at 4:05am | IP Logged | |||||
Cool, thanks for sharing chaotic_thought. I contemplated using references in my flashcards for textbook sources when initially starting with them and but soon opted out of that as I personally found that too messy. I think I just need to stick to this rule- is little information as possible and only provide further information if it's going to distinguish one word from being mixed up with another word spelled the same or a difference in meaning of the same word. I'll just see how I go, hopefully I can streamline it. It just seems to me the SRS is a pain, it always has been for me, but i ironically like the idea of having an inventory of terms i've already learned/come across and should know. Perhaps providing multiple examples is simply overkill and that's where my flaw is. In some ways i'm self conscious of having requested this advice. I've requested it a few times before and like I said ppl are probably over it. I also think I tend to come across stupid by asking obvious questions. I do the same at work sometimes (more so when I was newer) but essentially I enjoy asking others' opinions with an air of open- mindedness that the way I do things is not necessarily the best method. In the end I often remain stubborn and can't break my own patterns and seem to be the opposite of open-mindedness. All like many ppl keep saying- as long as you remain consistent in your learning you should get there in the end. Still I will endeavour to attempt to make some aspects of my studying more efficient. It seems at least I've successfully managed to kill this thread. Well since it's Australia, I might as well go and throw another shrimp on the barbe... I've already thrown a few dozen on there this morning, but hell what's another one, right? PM 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5101 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 331 of 350 31 May 2015 at 5:10am | IP Logged | |||||
You can use phrases with a representative noun, eg. to have a coffee = prendre un café to take the bus = prendre le bus to put on 2 kilos = prendre 2 kilos so the question side and the answer side still have this 1 to 1 relationship (no additional notes), and you'd have a complete phrase in your head that you can use. I don't like doing that, though. If a word is too hard to create a card for, I simply don't create the card this time. Maybe I will have better luck/inspiration next time. If you can't stand the thought of not creating a card for a new word, you can write it down somewhere or bookmark the dictionary entry, and leave it for later. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5269 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 332 of 350 31 May 2015 at 5:22am | IP Logged | |||||
Thanks smallwhite, That's a good idea worth at least trying, cheers :) PM On a side note, can I ask your thoughts on reading vs courses? I began using courses HEAVILY and then moved to a mixture of half intensive (course) study and half extensive (reading/ subtitle reading in L2/ watching with L2 as main audio)... I have read that you need extensive coverage to readlly come across enough words enough times, but if doing only intensive courseswork with SRS as well you're not too likely to need that extensive coverage by reading are you not? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| chaotic_thought Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 3335 days ago 129 posts - 274 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Dutch, French | Message 333 of 350 31 May 2015 at 11:26am | IP Logged | |||||
If SRS is a pain then don't do it. Some people seem to think its the best thing since sliced bread but in my experience it's only slightly better than a list of words. I always begin by typing my words in an Excel sheet and set this sheet up to warn me if I enter a duplicate. Enter them in the order that they come up in the book. tu vous bonjour comment t'appelles tu ... Don't enter any other information at first. By the time you get to the end of the book, go back through the list and see which words you *actually* have to learn. If this material is a lesson book, and if the language is similar to one you know already (French and English share lots of vocabulary so this counts as "similar"), I estimate 70-80% will be "known" to you already from your day-to-day readings of the lesson book. I.e., you've got no more work to do to "learn" those items! If you want you can import them into your SRS program for tracking purposes and mark them off as "learned" or whatever. Edited by chaotic_thought on 31 May 2015 at 11:29am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5269 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 334 of 350 31 May 2015 at 11:48am | IP Logged | |||||
As much as they are a pain (SRS) I won't drop them, because it's very good for exposure to words you want to learn but may not come across very frequently, and still good for the rest. I just find it dry and fiddly. I'm working on the fiddly and trying to spice up the dry side of things too. I'm experimenting with Anki a little. It seems like a good program but why not a side 3? There's a few other options lacking that Flashcards Deluxe does have but Anki has some things FCD doesn't. It's a little like the Beta/VHS thing if you're old enough to have been around. Beta was better but VHS is what took off. Nearly everyone seems to be using Anki on HTLAL but i'm still not convinced. Then again I'm not the most intelligent here by a long shot so my opinion may be worth squat. And of course i'm biased so maybe i'm wrong on the FC preference thing. One reason I like FCD is ironically I believe it's more efficient to use than Anki. Some good ideas there chaotic_thought, I'll keep them in mind in my experiments... cheers 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6390 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 335 of 350 03 June 2015 at 2:48am | IP Logged | |||||
Then maybe do less courses and more native materials? ;) Anki can have as many sides as you want, just edit the note template. Edited by Serpent on 03 June 2015 at 2:48am 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5269 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 336 of 350 03 June 2015 at 4:00am | IP Logged | |||||
Not intending to be rude... but... you're kinda wasting your time on me Serpent. it's rare that I follow advice on this forum it seems. I'm as stubborn as a mule and if I can't get through to me no-one else will. I like to think I'm open-minded but I think i'm on some kind of insane course mission as my log title suggests. Good thing I'm insane myself or I wouldn't cope. As for Anki... pfft can't be bothered right now. FCD is working well for me again.... until my next complaint when I beg everyone for a solution and everyone turns a blind eye to my suffering as I die clutching my courses and my mobile phone. I must be one of the most rediculous learners on this forum I think. Mind you at least I'm still learning day in day out. Fact is, I revel in my own rediculousness. Maybe I'm attention seeking? Aren't we all in some respects. Anyway FCD has a deck option in which you simply turn on a setting and all your cards will show up in both directions. I think i'm just used to FCD, but for anyone who uses it, they are usually very impressed, so if there's any rival for Anki I think this is it but it's just not as well known. One thing I like with Anki, which is more of a workaround with the options it has, and I have not used is the subs to srs stuff that emk was using. Not sure i'll ever use it tho, as i am by 2015 standards almost computer illiterate and feel attempting sth like that for me would waste more time than it's worth and I've done far too much of that in the past (by means of procrastination). FCD on the other hand is great for entering cards directly into the app on the go, or like me at my desk with a keyboard linked to my phone. Where's my bloody foot at? Know what I'm sayin? Edited by PeterMollenburg on 03 June 2015 at 4:01am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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