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How much time studying vocabulary? | ||
Tags: Time to learn | Vocabulary learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4326 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes  Studies: German | Message 209 of 350 19 May 2015 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I basically agree. I can see the point of learning 2000-3000 words to get a foot up in accessing native materials, but at a certain point you are better off learning words in context. And Jeffers and S_allard is absolutely right that you learn the meaning of the word from it's use. Today as I was walking with my wife I said in German that I was gradually/slowly getting hungry. Now I could have used allmählich=gradually or langsam=slow in the sentence. Which is correct? Which sounds painfully formal? It's obvious to my ear which is correct and which sounds totally weird. I really wonder how those who use word lists to learn could tell the difference. The point being that of course there are 1000s of these sorts of examples in any language that can only be learnt from using the language, not from studying it at one step removed. Edited by patrickwilken on 19 May 2015 at 5:53pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4500 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 210 of 350 19 May 2015 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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You learn some words beforehand but you never have an entire overview of what you may
need. This means you win some, you lose some when it comes to vocab. Today I had to use the word "speed skating" in Finnish and I had no idea what that word was (because my Finnish is limited to I like potatoes because they are good). Should I learn this word? Maybe not, it's a rare sport. But it is the national sport of my country and we won a record-beating 23 medals in it at the last Olympics. So maybe I should know. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6702 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 211 of 350 19 May 2015 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
One could as well learn the present tense pattern of an -er verb (e.g. parler), and then 100 verb infinitives. (Or even 94 if there was a limit of 100 entries...) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5029 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 212 of 350 19 May 2015 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Why does it make a difference if you learn words higgledy-piggledy, organically, from lists or from books as long as you learn them? The point I keep coming back to is efficiency, the accomplishment of or ability to accomplish a job with a minimum expenditure of time and effort. You might have time to wander around hoping to learn words organically (aka inefficiently) but I don't have time for that crap. I need to get up to speed in the shortest time possible. So you meander around aimlessly learning 15 words a day, and I'll zip through my 500 words per day list. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4326 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 213 of 350 19 May 2015 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Can you tell me how you are learning shades of meanings from words from word lists? I used to work as in graduate admissions for a university, and I remember seeing some really weird English essays from Asian students who had learnt 1000s of words using word lists. Their English was understandable in the same way a bad Google translation is. Which is probably not coincidental as Google has at least a good an ear as someone who has predominately learnt via word lists. It's perhaps a great starting point, but it's not fluent language use. I am not denying that learning the APPROXIMATE meanings of 1000s of words is useful. It may save you time looking them up in a dictionary (though with Kindle the time saving is probably marginal), but it won't teach you how to use the words in proper context. I get that for a lot of people that's probably not an aim. Getting to B2 is great, and if you want to add lots of languages at a B2 level to your resume that's fine and it's fine to do a language at a Google translate level, but if you want to go further you need to use native materials. But surely we aren't arguing about that are we? Edited by patrickwilken on 19 May 2015 at 6:18pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ezy Ryder Diglot Senior Member Poland youtube.com/user/Kat Joined 4142 days ago 284 posts - 387 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 214 of 350 19 May 2015 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Step 1.: Learn enough vocab to make compelling input comprehensible. Step 2.: Consume the input. EDIT:Think of it this way: You're at point A, and want to get to point B. The shortest way between two points is a straight line. But there's a mountain in the way. Going around the mountain may not be moving straight in the direction of your destination, but should be easier than climbing a big-posterior mountain, if you'll pardon my French. Edited by Ezy Ryder on 19 May 2015 at 6:22pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4326 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 215 of 350 19 May 2015 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Right so you consume native materials to get the shades of meaning. I think it's often more efficient to use a pop-up dictionary if your aim is simply to have an approximate definition for a word pop-up in your L1 in your head, which is what you'll get when you use word lists. Edited by patrickwilken on 19 May 2015 at 6:22pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ezy Ryder Diglot Senior Member Poland youtube.com/user/Kat Joined 4142 days ago 284 posts - 387 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 216 of 350 19 May 2015 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Not really. I find I end up with an English (technically not my L1, but still :) ) definition in my head only when I have nearly forgotten the word, and need to resort to the mnemonic I used to memorize it. And when I remember a word better, I don't translate it in my mind (unless I cannot understand a sentence otherwise). 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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