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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 513 of 1511 03 February 2013 at 4:38pm | IP Logged |
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What has that got to do with anything?
Edit: wiki says it's simply a labour camp. If you want to argue the politics of the name (and a forced labour camp is what the gulag IS), this is not the place to do it. Edited by tarvos on 03 February 2013 at 4:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5054 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 514 of 1511 03 February 2013 at 4:41pm | IP Logged |
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ГУЛАГ is главное управление лагерей. There was only one Gulag which was placed in Moscow,
it ruled all the prison camps in the Soviet Union in 1930-50s. A more correct information from Wikipedia Главное управление лагерей и мест заключения (ГУЛаг) — подразделение НКВД СССР, МВД СССР, Министерства юстиции СССР, осуществлявшее руководство мест массового принудительного заключения и содержания в 1934—1960 годах. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%A3%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B3 The Gulag (Russian: ГУЛаг, tr. GULag; IPA: [ɡʊˈlak] ( listen)) was the Soviet Union government agency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag Edited by Марк on 03 February 2013 at 4:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 515 of 1511 03 February 2013 at 4:45pm | IP Logged |
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That may work in Russian, but in my language (and also in English), the word gulag is
simply synonymous with labour camp. That may be false to a Russian but this is how we use the word. We would use the word gulag equally to describe a labour camp in North Korea, for example. Edited by tarvos on 03 February 2013 at 4:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5054 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 516 of 1511 03 February 2013 at 4:53pm | IP Logged |
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But English Wikipedia says the Gulag has my meaning.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 517 of 1511 03 February 2013 at 5:03pm | IP Logged |
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Well that is in principle where the word comes from, but we can use it as such. And I
don't even see why that distinction is very relevant to make, so if you could stop arguing semantics here that would be very pleasant of you. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4686 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 518 of 1511 03 February 2013 at 5:04pm | IP Logged |
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Growing up I mainly heard "The Gulag" used in English to refer to the system of camps as a whole (or occasionally to a system of camps in another country, such as NK), but not to a specific camp. This usage is slightly different from the Russian original, but at least maintains the sense of "The Gulag" as a single entity relating to the entire system.
FWIW, dictionary.com says you're both right, but the collective noun is given as the first definition, and Tarvos' usages are given as definitions 2 and 3. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 519 of 1511 03 February 2013 at 8:03pm | IP Logged |
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That's an entirely different context for the term Gulag and you would be using it
according to a different definition. As outlined already, I am firmly within my rights to use the word differently (in English! your book is in Russian, I am not going to argue with you about Russian dictionary definitions) in this context using another definition. We're going to keep this thread on-topic and discussing the word in this context. I have told you that I am not getting into a semantic discussion with you. If you want to be so desperately right, go be desperately right somewhere else. This is not the place for it. Edited by tarvos on 03 February 2013 at 8:04pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 520 of 1511 05 February 2013 at 5:59pm | IP Logged |
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РУ: Сегодня у меня пришло задание для следуюшего урока русского языка. Я ответил на
вопросы, обсуждая совершенный и несовершенный вид. Еще закончил я посмотреть на документарный фильм. Кроме того, занимался учебой, и подготовился к экзамену. Ядерная химя... сложно, не хочу говорить, но, вообще, мне надо немного времени, чтобы сдать. Есть у меня два урока русского языка на этот неделе, немного больше чем обычно, но вообще это очень важный язык. Besides that, I have not done much, except a bit of Hebrew on the bus to university yesterday. I will finish that unit tonight as it's just mostly filling out some verb tables (no dialogues in it). I have one or two more mock exams to go before the real thing on Thursday, but it's not that hard and some of the questions are duplicates, so I can skip them (and I have no way to verify the answers, plus most questions just repeat the same boring logarithmic calculations). Furthermore, I have also bought Le Roumain sans peine (or well, ordered it) and it should come in within the coming few weeks (usually it's fairly fast from France). Not that I plan to seriously study Romanian soon (nor Icelandic) but I just want to have the materials for when I do, plus, I already know a tiny tiny tiiiiiiiiiiiiiny bit of Romanian from way back, so some basic things actually look and sound familiar when dealing with that language. It's not an unknown entity, I know what it sounds like. I will continue le Breton when I am actually done with the exam, so expect to see more daily updates on Breton and Hebrew from that point on. Russian is easier to occupy myself with because I don't have to think about most of the grammatical constructions when listening to it. I need to build up those other languages from scratch. Edited by tarvos on 05 February 2013 at 6:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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