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Listening-Reading system | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7205 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 121 of 489 17 July 2007 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Consistent, but not the same as Ardaschir's approach. As I understand the approaches, here are some high level differences: Ardaschir's method does a little each day. One can develop proficiency with 15 minutes per day, every day, over the course of a few years. He had no ATTACK to learn a language in a in a few weeks. Ardaschir listened and shadowed (spoke at the same time as the recording) before he necessarily even knew what he was saying. Listening-reading postpones speaking until after you can understand the spoken language (natural listening). Ardaschir started with Assimil, which is a relatively short book and amount of audio (2-3 hours once edited). Listening-Reading suggests starting with 10-20 times that amount of material. When you've advanced to audiobooks, Ardaschir's method has you shadowing the audio while reading the target language. As I understand it, listening-reading has you speaking a split second afterwards, without the aid of a book. Similarities include that both methods employ parallel texts and audio. Ardaschir liked the old Linguaphone courses which had the same content regardless of language, which is similar in concept to listening-reading step 1, although listening-reading wants you to love the material. I don't claim to be an expert on either method. It's possible that I have misunderstood both methods. I'm interested if you all are noticing and understanding the differences I have outlined, and am also curious what other differences you notice. I have a couple of questions: Other than step 2 and 5, I don't see where you are using the target language book. Originally I thought one gradually migrated from one's learning language to the target language as the target language became comprehensible. Is that correct? I understand LSD1 is the language you know well, and LSD2 is the target language, but what does LSD stand for? Edited by luke on 17 July 2007 at 12:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7092 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 122 of 489 17 July 2007 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I agree with the difference you outlined above. He took on one thing at a time, sound, meaning and then text. He’d cover this over a series of months. Also depending on the difficulty of the language he would drill after completing an Assimil text. (For the novice learner any language will be difficult). He also had a graded approach to reading starting with easy reads to progressively more difficult works. Fanatic outlines a similar approach in his use of Assimil, but his tactics completely different. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| siomotteikiru Senior Member Zaire Joined 6361 days ago 102 posts - 242 votes | Message 123 of 489 17 July 2007 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Ardaschir is sure a great man, quite unlike me.
Pity I didn't meet Him here. There's one more minor difference, two: I have plenty of readily available materials for listening-reading in many languages, and I DO share. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6943 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 124 of 489 17 July 2007 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I remember some of his posts talking about knocking all the pauses out of Assimil recordings, and then going off into the woods with the headphones on and the Assimil text in his hands. He clearly used Assimil as a continuous audiobook of sorts to break into a new language. It's only afterwards that he would also do it lesson by lesson. I do see quite a few similarities between "reading-listening" and Ardaschir's approach. One of them is starting with the translation, instead of working with the original and using the translation only to look up difficult spots or as a check. Listening to the target language while reading in the base language, something Ardaschir does with Assimil courses, is another striking common feature that is extremely non-standard. Exactly when you start shadowing may be an important detail for developing good pronunciation, but it doesn't detract from the similarities. What I found of great interest is that this thread's method fuses three separate elements in Ardaschir's approach, namely, using Assimil as a kind of audiobook and reading it in the base language first, dual-language reading of literarure starting from the base language, and audiobooks of literary works. The claim is that this fusion is not just a variation on the old tune(s), but that it takes language-learning to a whole new level, taking all the hard work out of learning a language that is so noticeable even in Ardaschir's accounts, as well as those of Kato Lomb and Barry Farber. If true, it is a major advance. If true. When it doesn't work out, one can always try this approach as just a form of practice upon reaching intermediate stage by conventional means. Precisely because of the overlap with some of the more unusual aspects of Ardaschir's techniques, whose experiences provide an important additional data point, I feel that in this "intermediate mode" it is non-controversial and likely to work for many of us, subject only to the pesky issue of finding the audiobooks. Edited by frenkeld on 18 July 2007 at 2:18am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6943 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 125 of 489 17 July 2007 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Don't worry about fame. If your method works as advertised, I will start working on a monument to The Unknown Pole in my backyard. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7092 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 126 of 489 17 July 2007 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Forgive us; we're just taking a new idea out for a spin. John 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| siomotteikiru Senior Member Zaire Joined 6361 days ago 102 posts - 242 votes | Message 127 of 489 17 July 2007 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I like spinning like an electron, which is Greek for amber, in case it's Greek to you.
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| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7205 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 128 of 489 17 July 2007 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I like your characterization of his method. He definitely talked about walking around while reading, but I didn't pick up that he was doing that with his Assimil book in the woods.
And that is one of the areas where I was never clear on his method. For everyone's benefit, here is an extended quote.
Thank you for your comments. I can now see better now what he was saying.
I'm with you there. I think it's also important not to discount the differences. The Assimil book is clearly not the type of literature that Miss Hopper has been referring to, but its bilingual format, audio, and even helpful grammatical comments all make it a potential source for her "misuse" of the course. * * "misuse" is a term coined by Farley that really means a clever alternative approach to a course. There is nothing derrogatory about "misuse" in this context. In fact, it's a complement. Using Assimil as the source for the listening-reading technique would be an interesting misuse of both Assimil and siomotteikiru's method. Have you figured out what the LSD1/LSD2 acronyms are? Do you see which steps are using the target language to learn to read? Edited by luke on 17 July 2007 at 6:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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