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Learning with texts

  Tags: Software
 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
353 messages over 45 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 29 ... 44 45 Next >>
Crush
Diglot
Senior Member
ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4169 days ago

1622 posts - 2296 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Mandarin, Esperanto, Basque

 
 Message 225 of 353
05 October 2011 at 12:19pm | IP Logged 
So I've been playing around with this since yesterday and am really excited about it, but I've got a question (or perhaps a request for suggestions) on how to use it for languages such as English ("give something up" - give up) or German ("Ruf mich an" - anrufen), where you have phrasal or perhaps compound verbs which don't immediately follow one another in a sentence?
2 persons have voted this message useful



Michel1020
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Belgium
Joined 3321 days ago

365 posts - 559 votes 
Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch

 
 Message 226 of 353
05 October 2011 at 3:06pm | IP Logged 
I see 5 ways to run around the "split word"

- if both parts are not more than 8 words away from each other you can take them together in an up to 9 words sentence.

- use tag - save both part as 2 separated words but tag them with a common reference for example give with tag give_up and up with same tag give_up. There are for sure other and better ways to use tags. I am a little short to figure them out, right now.

- export your vocabulary and edit your saved item.

- explane the case in the translation or in the romanisation field. Translation field does not have to be a translation but could be something helping you to understand the saved item.

- it is also possible to create a new item for the ruf ...an - even if there are more than 7 words in the gap
2 persons have voted this message useful



Crush
Diglot
Senior Member
ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4169 days ago

1622 posts - 2296 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Mandarin, Esperanto, Basque

 
 Message 227 of 353
05 October 2011 at 10:38pm | IP Logged 
The tag method sounds good, adding a new item called "anrufen" which holds the definition. I'll continue playing around with it (and try uploading a few German texts), thanks for the suggestions.
1 person has voted this message useful



Crush
Diglot
Senior Member
ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4169 days ago

1622 posts - 2296 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Mandarin, Esperanto, Basque

 
 Message 228 of 353
08 October 2011 at 10:26pm | IP Logged 
Here are some thoughts and suggestions I have after having used it for a few days. I think it would be great to be able to create ONE main word, then link other words to that main word. The tags section can then be used to talk about the function of the word:

Word - Main group - tags
am - be - 1st person (or simply: I), present
was - be - singular (I, s/he), past
jumped - jump - past
trucks - truck - plural
him - he - d.o., i.o. (nonsubject)
etc.

When coming across a word, you look to the definition of the main word. Also, when creating the main word, it would be nice to be able to add other conjugated/declined forms. That way, I could just visit verbix and copy/paste all forms of a verb.

Another idea goes back to seperable particles (compound verbs). This would be entirely up to the user, meaning the program wouldn't parse the texts looking for compound verbs. Basically, after having selected the main (verb) component, you could then click on the secondary (attached) component, and the program would then recognize that the two form a set (and could then search to see if it exists/its "main group"). I realize this is considerably more complicated, but I'd love to see a way to handle seperated verbs (or reflexive verbs). You could also have a list of "particles" for verbs, so clicking on the English verb "put" along with the definition in your native language you would get (or could click on something to get) a list of other "phrasal verbs" that you've already come across: put up, put out, put down, etc.

This is a wonderful tool and I've been having a lot of fun with it the last few days. Thanks again :)
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dongsen
Newbie
Taiwan
Joined 3113 days ago

30 posts - 44 votes
Speaks: English

 
 Message 229 of 353
12 October 2011 at 1:29am | IP Logged 
I have given it a decent try now, it has a lot of potential, it does however seem to be very difficult to use to
study chinese. I can see it would probably be possible to use, but the effort seems to far outweigh the
usefulness of the thing.
1 person has voted this message useful



Michel1020
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Belgium
Joined 3321 days ago

365 posts - 559 votes 
Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch

 
 Message 230 of 353
13 October 2011 at 10:59am | IP Logged 
Crush wrote:
Here are some thoughts and suggestions I have after having used it for a few days. I think it would be great to be able to create ONE main word, then link other words to that main word. The tags section can then be used to talk about the function of the word:

Word - Main group - tags
am - be - 1st person (or simply: I), present
was - be - singular (I, s/he), past
jumped - jump - past
trucks - truck - plural
him - he - d.o., i.o. (nonsubject)
etc.

When coming across a word, you look to the definition of the main word.

You could get a so called main word with the tags. For example put the tag be to all forms of to be - add the tag main to the word to be. Then you are able to make a list of all to be forms and to find the main form easily.

Crush wrote:

Also, when creating the main word, it would be nice to be able to add other conjugated/declined forms. That way, I could just visit verbix and copy/paste all forms of a verb.


It is possible to add items that are not in your text one by one or you could create a text with all the forms of a verb or of many verbs.

Crush wrote:

Another idea goes back to seperable particles (compound verbs). This would be entirely up to the user, meaning the program wouldn't parse the texts looking for compound verbs. Basically, after having selected the main (verb) component, you could then click on the secondary (attached) component, and the program would then recognize that the two form a set (and could then search to see if it exists/its "main group"). I realize this is considerably more complicated, but I'd love to see a way to handle seperated verbs (or reflexive verbs). You could also have a list of "particles" for verbs, so clicking on the English verb "put" along with the definition in your native language you would get (or could click on something to get) a list of other "phrasal verbs" that you've already come across: put up, put out, put down, etc.

This is a wonderful tool and I've been having a lot of fun with it the last few days. Thanks again :)


You are not able to see all the forms of a word when reading a text (unless the text include all those forms) but you can go to the My Terms page and sort on 2 tags.

I do not use the testing options of LWT but they look quite poor to me. No way to test on a specific tag and no way to repeat a test or to use the other testing exercises when you finished the vocabulary of a text for the day.

1 person has voted this message useful



Michel1020
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Belgium
Joined 3321 days ago

365 posts - 559 votes 
Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch

 
 Message 231 of 353
13 October 2011 at 11:19am | IP Logged 
dongsen wrote:
I have given it a decent try now, it has a lot of potential, it does however seem to be very difficult to use to
study chinese. I can see it would probably be possible to use, but the effort seems to far outweigh the
usefulness of the thing.


What exactly is the difficulty with chinese in LWT ?
It will help you to segmentate your texts but this is not specific to chinese and don't demand a lot of time compare to the total language learning time.

I am suspecting maybe you try to work with texts too difficult for your skill or you expect fluency to come to you too quick. I do not see why learning chinese would not work in LWT.

That said I think one tool is not enough to learn any language.
1 person has voted this message useful



Michel1020
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Belgium
Joined 3321 days ago

365 posts - 559 votes 
Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch

 
 Message 232 of 353
13 October 2011 at 11:48am | IP Logged 
There was more freedom with testing in early version.


1 person has voted this message useful



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