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Radioclare’s TAC log 2014 (*jäŋe/*ledús) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4502 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 433 of 522 21 November 2014 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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Roll the r, try and pronounce it, and you'll find out it's not that impossible :)
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| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4378 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 434 of 522 21 November 2014 at 2:31pm | IP Logged | ||
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You are assuming I can roll my r's :)
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| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4502 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 435 of 522 21 November 2014 at 10:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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That's something you can learn :)
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| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4378 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 436 of 522 22 November 2014 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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So people tell me :D
I have got a bit better at it over the years and it doesn't normally cause me too many problems in Croatian; I can manage something resembling an r if it follows a consonant, and I can make a good enough attempt at words like 'trg', 'krk', 'prst' etc to be understood. It's more of a problem for me in Esperanto because I really struggle to make an r sound where it follows a vowel. Eg. in Esperanto I struggle to differentiate between 'kato' (cat) and 'karto' (card). When I speak Esperanto I have a coping strategy of trying to avoid words with lots of r's in them. I know I can't pronounce the word 'terura' (terrible) for example, so I always substitute it with 'malbonega' (really bad). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6704 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 437 of 522 22 November 2014 at 11:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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In that Esperanto case, I think a retroflex r (say, a General American one) is better than not saying the r at all (I assume you have a non-rhotic English accent).
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| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4378 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 438 of 522 23 November 2014 at 12:06am | IP Logged | ||
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I watched two episodes of 'Bitange i Princeze' last night on my phone, and another three this evening on my
computer, which is now working again thanks to a new charger :) The two episodes I watched yesterday were probably the funniest ones I have ever seen. One of the characters works for the Croatian secret services, who are portrayed as completely incompetent, spending most of their time investigating imagined plots against what they refer to as their "neighbours in the north" (the Slovenes). In this episode they upgraded their Google Maps and discovered a brand new island on the border between the two countries and claimed that the Slovenes had strayed onto the Croatian half of it. Croatia took this as an excuse to declare war on Slovenia and began preparing to invade them. There followed a lot of jokes at the expense of Slovenia, eg. the Croatian government appealed for men to join up to the army, then was so overwhelmed by subscriptions that they reported the number of new Croatian recruits to be greater than the population of Slovenia :) They were good-natured jokes though and there were also plenty making fun of Croatians. One of the characters, who works as a TV presenter, was supposed to be reporting on the war while wearing a patriotic red-and-white check Croatian tie. He couldn't get the hang of tying the knot so it kept falling off his neck while he was on air, leading him to curse it and say "Who invented these stupid ties anyway? It must have been a Slovene" :) To put the jokes into context, this series was filmed in 2009, which is when Slovenia was blocking Croatia's entry into the EU over long-running border disputes. Serbs didn't get off scot-free either. A couple of Serbian characters who periodically crop up in the series volunteered to be impartial observers of the war for the EU, in the hope that their good behaviour would help improve Serbia's chances with its EU bid. It didn't really work out for them as they couldn't resist the temptation to get involved in some war-profiteering, selling cheap Chinese ammunition to the Croats when they ran out. The Croatian recruits hadn't had much training with ammunition, which led to two of the characters accidentally firing on one of their own hospitals and being pursued by the Hague for war crimes in a subsequent episode. My three funniest moments were probably... - A rip-off of the famous song 'E moj druže beogradski' from the 1990's war, which they sang a spoof version of called 'E moj druže mariborski' :) - When the secret services were told they needed to disguise themselves as Slovenes and parachute into Ljubljana, taking with them a 'poljski telefon' (field telephone) to stay in touch. They accidentally parachuted into Graz, Austria instead and when they tried to use the phone to call home they ended up with an operator speaking Polish to them. (The joke was a pun on the word 'poljski', which also means 'Polish'). - One of the Serbian characters was arguing with a Croatian character and wanted to say that he wouldn't help him in a million years. He said he would do it "when Zemun is in Croatia'. In a subsequent argument the Croatian character said that he wouldn't help the Serbian character "until Knin was in Serbia". Understanding these jokes made me happy, because I was able to follow enough of both the language and the cultural references to genuinely laugh at them :) And so no matter how much I complain about the SC films, I have to admit that the 83 I have watched so far have had a massive impact on my listening ability. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4378 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 439 of 522 23 November 2014 at 12:16am | IP Logged | ||
Hmm, interesting - thank you :) My accent is definitely non-rhotic but I don't know what an American r is like so I will have to investigate it. My r, or lack thereof, is normally understood fine when talking to other native English-speaking Esperantists, but has been known to cause hilarity in more international circles :) I think r is quite problematic in Esperanto for lots of nationalities, albeit probably for different reasons. I have heard a lot of French and German speakers pronounce it horribly, and some native speakers who pronounce it as badly as I do because their parents couldn't pronounce it properly. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5057 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 440 of 522 23 November 2014 at 1:08am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm an American who lived in England for several years- northern England, all along the M-62. I remember how my ears would perk up whenever I would hear a hard "r" in English. Usually these people were Irish or Scottish because there were few Americans in that part of the country. My girlfriend's favorite TV show on Channel 5 (which I called "the American Channel"), "ER", she pronounced as (to my ears) "eee ahhh". Though I was very accustomed to her "vague northern" accent, whenever she would mention "eee ahhh", it always threw me for a loop. Along with Reese's Cups, Mexican food and basketball, I missed hearing hard "r's".
Once, my six year old daughter's school had a "pirate" day and she got into it with a stereotypical eye patch and a fake parrot on her shoulder, so cute. She knew that pirates said "Arrrrr" and "Shiver me timbers" which came out as "Ahhhhhh" and "Shivuh me timbuhs" to my ears. I was always curious about the origin of the pirate accent. The conventional theory was that English pirates had a West Country accent. Recently, I found this explanation that speaks more to pop culture (who ever heard a 17th century pirate speak?):
Clare, you've probably seen a massive amount of American films and television in your life but not really paid that much attention to the accent. My daughter (now 15, and still living in England) can do a passable general American accent, but it wasn't right until she consciously imitated my "r". Try to imitate an American "r" in English first. It may be easier, but you'll have to notice. Only on HTLAL! Absurd Pirate Myths Everyone Believes from Movies- via Cracked Edited by iguanamon on 23 November 2014 at 1:35am 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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