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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 993 of 1511 06 December 2013 at 3:42pm | IP Logged |
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Zwarte Piet is black because he crawls down chimneys and is thus covered in soot. Some
people think it has to do with slavery, but if we're going to go back in history, the Zwarte Piet is actually based upon Moorish traditions (or even Odin's black ravens). As far as I know, Zwarte Pieten are just helpers who can be a little mischievous at times. As always, people would do well to actually research the origins of Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet before yelling nonsensical crap at camera's. There was a national uproar about this but I didn't follow it because someone who thinks Zwarte Piet is racist just has no goddamn inkling about what they are talking about. Apart from the fact that they just happen to be black because of traditional origins of Saint Nicholas coming from Spain with Moorish helpers (if he'd come from Turkey, then they might have been tanned? Or what if he'd come from China?), there's a perfectly good non-historical explanation in the soot. If you want to think Sinterklaas is "racist" (wtf? Sinterklaas gives presents to Dutch of people of African or Caribbean origin just as much?) then you're just looking for a stick to hit things with and complain. I don't understand how the Zwarte Piet depiction is cliché either - they look like circus costumes who are painted black, they don't look like a poor black guy starving. Yes, they have large earrings, but so what? That's just a look, an image, all religious traditions have weird imagery. Are we going to ban Santa Claus for being insulting towards obese people or for animal cruelty towards reindeer? It just doesn't make any sense. It was a parody based on an old joke that's developed into something secular and in no way is intended to mock anything. We don't live in the Stone Age. Edited by tarvos on 06 December 2013 at 3:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4637 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 994 of 1511 06 December 2013 at 4:06pm | IP Logged |
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In Alsace Saint Nicolas is also accompanied by a figure who punishes naughty children, here he's called Hans Trapp, and he is not black, but will wear dark clothes and often a blackish beard. He also wears a rod or a whip. Small kids might be scared of him, but the bigger ones will rather try to mock him and hit him back with something hard...
The Alsatian tradition has probably its origins in the German celebration of Nikolaustag. And also in Alsace many people give the gifts on the eve of 24 December (when the Christkindel comes, normally symbolised by a young girl dressed in white), while in the rest of France it is normally on the morning of the 25th, as far as I know. Edited by Ogrim on 06 December 2013 at 4:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4842 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 995 of 1511 06 December 2013 at 4:50pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks, tarvos! That's what I thought: Just some overambitious, overly PC people gone mad. Here in Germany, someone really demanded that children shouldn't be taught Christmas carols in kindergarten, because children of immigrants might feel excluded or even discriminated against.
Why not abolish all traditions, so nobody will feel excluded any more? The problem is no one will be able to feel included either, because we won't have a culture any longer. I'm normally not one of those cultural pessimists or even right-wing populists, but this simply goes too far... Edited by Josquin on 06 December 2013 at 4:52pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 996 of 1511 06 December 2013 at 5:40pm | IP Logged |
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It hasn't got anything to do with being right-wing or cultural pessimism. It has to do
with knowing your history, and people don't. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| namoran Newbie United States pooglegoo.blogspot.c Joined 4003 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Modern Hebrew | Message 997 of 1511 08 December 2013 at 3:24am | IP Logged |
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will anyone organize a TAC 2014 challenge? This time last year the teams were assembling.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 998 of 1511 08 December 2013 at 3:03pm | IP Logged |
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There's a sign-up thread on the first page, go look for it.
I certainly am not organizing anything, haha... By the way, you lot will have to do without me for a couple days, as I am headed to Munich tomorrow. This means I will be speaking lots of German (be prepared to see lots of German on my 6WCBot and a lot of other languages as I will have long train journeys and thus be capable of logging tons of hours for foreign languages.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| milesaway Triglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4329 days ago 134 posts - 181 votes Speaks: French, English*, Russian Studies: Finnish, Sign Language | Message 999 of 1511 08 December 2013 at 3:45pm | IP Logged |
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Приятной поездки!
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1000 of 1511 11 December 2013 at 9:38am | IP Logged |
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Thanks. I am in Germany now and I have noticed
that my speaking is rusty. Same goes for my Swedish. I really ought to give some of my old languages a bit of practice. I read an entire Swedish book on the way here. On the way back I will concern myself with French. I am trying to finish most of the books I have left to read right now - I have another interview on Friday for Romania. I don't know how much I will be able to take with me if I go. I also want to buy a German book here to practice that. Furthermore I have hit level 5 of TTMIK. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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