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Endelig norsk. Igjen. Alltid - TAC 2013

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Expugnator
Hexaglot
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 Message 49 of 338
23 August 2012 at 10:13pm | IP Logged 
Is "når" actually used in spoken language as an interrogative pronoun meaning 'when?' I've yet to hear it in songs, and I though dialectal forms where used even in slightly less formal levels of language.

What about word order? I assume when it's "Når + verb + noun" it's a question, and when it's "Når + noun + verb" it's a subordinate clause, as follows:

Når er jeg fornøyd? (Postgirobyggets Gugg Og Grønne Skoger)
Når jeg er fornøyd.
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Brun Ugle
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 Message 50 of 338
23 August 2012 at 10:40pm | IP Logged 
Yes to both, I would say. Your second sentence of course, is only a clause and not a full sentence, but since you mentioned subordinate clauses above, I assume you knew that.

I don't know about songs. I've never analyzed them for the use of "når," but in regular speech it is perfectly normal to use it as an interrogative adverb.

For example, if someone told me they were going to Spain, I might say, "Når skal du dit?"

This is perfectly standard Norwegian, so I don't think it has anything to do with any particular dialect.



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tractor
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 Message 51 of 338
23 August 2012 at 10:42pm | IP Logged 
Expugnator wrote:
Is "når" actually used in spoken language as an interrogative pronoun meaning 'when?' I've
yet to hear it in songs, and I though dialectal forms where used even in slightly less formal levels of language.

Many dialects use words like 'katti' (< 'kva tid') as the interrogative adverb meaning 'when', but people
speaking Oslo dialect or "standard østnorsk" say 'når'.

Edited by tractor on 23 August 2012 at 10:43pm

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Expugnator
Hexaglot
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Brazil
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3335 posts - 4349 votes 
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 Message 52 of 338
23 August 2012 at 10:59pm | IP Logged 
That's it, I was sure to have heard/read something like katti instead of expected når. It's good to know I should stick to når.
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Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
Joined 5002 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 53 of 338
24 August 2012 at 8:46pm | IP Logged 
I'm having the same felling as of when I tried Assimil Norvégien the first time: I feel I'm overwhelmed with words at those lessons. It's all important words and there are seldom cognates (and I'm not asking for cognates between Norwegian and French, but words that look similar in English and/or German). So, I'm worried I might not be able to retain the most important words in these lessons again. I will surely do some reviewing by studying from another method, as I usually do, but I still think there are too many important words all thrown up at once. I have the feeling that I'm far from being able to read in Norwegian yet because I'm still missing some key verbs and adverbs that would enhance my understanding. Let's see how it will come up in the following weeks.
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Brun Ugle
Diglot
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 Message 54 of 338
24 August 2012 at 9:34pm | IP Logged 
We use "ka ti" too, but I think it is usually more in a case where you expect an answer in terms of clock time. I mean, a fairly precise hour.

I might say something along the lines of "Ka ti skal du dra til festen?" Because that would be answered with something like 7:00.

But in my example asking about when someone will be going to Spain, I wouldn't use "ka ti." I think "når" is better. But around here, "kolleis dag" or "kos dag" (what day/when) is also common in this situation. Of course, it could be that I haven't paid enough attention and that people really would use "ka ti" in the sentence about Spain. So you shouldn't rely too heavily on my answers since I'm not a native speaker, but I believe these are the usual expressions around here.


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tractor
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 Message 55 of 338
24 August 2012 at 9:57pm | IP Logged 
"Ka tid" in the sentence about Spain sounds perfectly natural to me. I think it depends on the dialect.

In northern dialects you also have the expression "ka tid klokka?" ("what time o'clock?") for asking about a specific
time.

Edited by tractor on 24 August 2012 at 10:04pm

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Brun Ugle
Diglot
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1292 posts - 1766 votes 
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 Message 56 of 338
24 August 2012 at 10:55pm | IP Logged 
tractor wrote:
"Ka tid" in the sentence about Spain sounds perfectly natural to me. I think it depends on the dialect.

In northern dialects you also have the expression "ka tid klokka?" ("what time o'clock?") for asking about a specific
time.


As I said, I'm no expert. I should probably go out and eavesdrop a little to find out what people really say.

I'm pretty sure we don't ask about the time that way though. We might say, "Kor mang e klokka?" And the answer would be, for example, "Ho e 12." I think we also say, "Ka (slags) ti e det?" and "ka e klokka?" Hmmm. It's very complicated when I start thinking about it.

Here's a question for all you Norwegians out there: Do you say "i attenhundre og brødmangel"
I'm wondering how local that expression is since I've heard it quite often in one place, but never outside of that one town.

Edited by Brun Ugle on 24 August 2012 at 10:58pm



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