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PMs TAC 2015 crazy? French course mission

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PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
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821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1

 
 Message 409 of 451
07 June 2015 at 7:05am | IP Logged 
A general update

June has started well, over 3 hours a day on average. I find i'm a little more
flexible with myself of late. If I feel like doing something different in French, I
will (some days).

After the discussions on reading, SRS and the like. Jeffers was the goutte d'eau qui
fait deborder le vase with his wise insights on the benefits of reading. Mind you many
had said it before but they were banging their heads against a brick wall, until
Jeffers started to put some pretty serious cracks in the brickword. I think once and
for all i decided i do absolutely regularly need native materials (starting with easy
readers first) including tv/radio as well. It's not just a bland decision though, as
emotion is coming into it too- I'm feeling i'm being drawn to native materials now.
I'm finally feeling like grammar/srs and the like are decent forms of intensive study
but that I need native input to round out the edges and gain exposure to French in the
wild in order to 'feel the language' (gain further passive understanding and so on). I
feel it's time. I'm noticing a change lately in that while watching some things
comprehension is gaining momentum. I feel like the snowball gathering speed and snow
in its momentum towards higher levels of French. I"m sure it's an element of
excitement that will quickly wane as I realise this isn't a couple of weeks thing. As
a side note tho I think sometimes I was blocking at my belief of comprehending native
materials to a degree, and that now if I relax and go along with it, as passive
understanding builds and I draw on my intensive study up to this point, comprehension
will flourish. I think I can pass that B2 in March.

I'm also feeling a pull towards wanting to speak again also- to further activate the
language. I found a meetup that was easier to attend than most, but in a smaller
provincial town/city for want of a better description. There were only 7 of us- all
learners and one former Alliance francaise teacher. The meetup was a little short at
45 minutes. I was almost the youngest there I think except one. It was nice to speak
French but all in all not enough advanced speakers as I was labelled fluent by one
participant. And with the risk of sounding arrogant/cocky/haughty they all (well prob
a few) commented on my (great) accent and were amazed how I taught myself French. So
many people out there it seems lack the understanding/confidence/know-
how/knowledge/belief/energy/willpower to teach themselves a language. I'm sure if I
was around advanced faster-paced speakers I'd feel much less confident indeed. Still
perhaps this little confidence-booster is good for
where I'm currently at. Know what I'm like sayin? Pfft

After following Rem's log, the idea of the italki challenge is also tempting me, easy-
does it though I think for the moment. Let's not go from one extreme to the other
monsieur le PM

PM, for realz

Edited by PeterMollenburg on 07 June 2015 at 7:08am

3 persons have voted this message useful



Cavesa
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 3486 days ago

3277 posts - 6778 votes 
Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1
Studies: Spanish, German, Italian

 
 Message 410 of 451
07 June 2015 at 7:47am | IP Logged 
Have you posted anywhere a complete list of your planned courses, you ambitious madman? :-)

Congratulations! Another step of your personal crusade completed. I am curious about your further progress, especially as you've just decided to join the dark side (the input devourers) ;-)

p.s. any hint at which page of your long log should I seek Fluenz review, please? I consider getting it for another language in future (not that far away future perhaps).

Edited by Cavesa on 07 June 2015 at 7:48am

3 persons have voted this message useful



PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3953 days ago

821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1

 
 Message 411 of 451
07 June 2015 at 11:15am | IP Logged 
Cavesa wrote:
Have you posted anywhere a complete list of your planned courses, you
ambitious madman? :-)


Salut Cavesa... Tu la trouveras page 32

Cavesa wrote:

Congratulations! Another step of your personal crusade completed. I am curious about
your further progress, especially as you've just decided to join the dark side (the
input devourers) ;-)


Merci beaucoup :) Et maintenant que j'ai l'intention de lire et regarder beaucoup
plus, cette liste de cours que j'ai mentionne au-dessus va rester une liste qui
diminuera tres lentement malheureusement.

Cavesa wrote:

p.s. any hint at which page of your long log should I seek Fluenz review, please? I
consider getting it for another language in future (not that far away future perhaps).


Pour ca, va a la page 42 :)
2 persons have voted this message useful



Jeffers
Senior Member
United Kingdom
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2151 posts - 3960 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German

 
 Message 412 of 451
09 June 2015 at 11:45pm | IP Logged 
It's nice to see you're going to start reading. Actually, resisting was probably good for you because you are now doing it out of desire rather than just study. I agree that starting with easy readers is a great idea, unless they're really boring. Have you got any readers in the pipeline?
2 persons have voted this message useful



Cavesa
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 3486 days ago

3277 posts - 6778 votes 
Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1
Studies: Spanish, German, Italian

 
 Message 413 of 451
10 June 2015 at 12:11am | IP Logged 
Merci pour l'info.

Tu peux lire des BD aussi. Asterix est un choix merveilleux et il y a plein d'autres a decouvrir.

Mais franchement, tu crois pas que des livres comme "Get started in French" soient un peu trop faciles pour toi maintenent? :-D

C'est rigolo, je t'avais deja demande sur Fluenz.
2 persons have voted this message useful



PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3953 days ago

821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1

 
 Message 414 of 451
10 June 2015 at 1:21am | IP Logged 
Jeffers wrote:
It's nice to see you're going to start reading. Actually, resisting
was probably good for you because you are now doing it out of desire rather than just
study. I agree that starting with easy readers is a great idea, unless they're really
boring. Have you got any readers in the pipeline?


Hi Jeffers,

Just to clarify I have been already reading for well over 12 months, which i'm sure
you knew- I think by 'start reading' you meant 'start seriously reading' or 'start
reading more'.

I think you're right, i'm starting to really want to read/watch etc more now. It's
strange I"ve been kinda doing what I want lately rather than what I feel I should be
doing or progressing through and although I've been wanting to read, I haven't picked
up a book for a number of days as I"ve found so much to occupy myself with.

I felt like watching the extr@ French series and have found it a nice break from
routine and even though the vocab of the series is easy I have found myself adding
masses of words to my flashcard deck while watching (i guess this is really more
intensive study yet again, due to the stopping, entering words and so on). Anyway it's
fun and a nice interlude at the moment.

In terms of reading material. Almost like my courses I have so much it's almost
rediculous. Of course the amount of books I have is nothing to some serious readers
out there, but for me it's a lot. I have plenty of easy readers, a number of bilingual
texts, a number of parallel texts, a LOT of childrens books that basically build in
difficulty from baby level to adolescent, and of course adult books and some more
technical/specialised books either to do with health topics or conspiracy theories. So
plenty of material to read.

I've not given up on my courses though, i'm just looking at balance now- actual
balance. I'm loosely apply the rule that every 2nd hour is an extensive hour
(reading/radio/tv etc) while every other hour is intensive (course/intensive
reading/yabla). So with that plan reading is more likely to be my go to activity for
extensive exposure to French as I can watch plenty of French in downtime (evenings or
while munching on breakfast etc).. intensive study my go to is still coursework, but
as I feel i'll sprinkle that with the other options - yabla/intensive reading/music
perhaps. On music I don't find it terribly useful for me to just listen. It's almost
too much 'noise'. I need to focus on individual lyrics and learn the song intensively.
I don't have a good enough ear to pick up enough from from songs. Anyway that's a
possibility too (analysing/memorising song lyrics).

PM


1 person has voted this message useful



PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3953 days ago

821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1

 
 Message 415 of 451
10 June 2015 at 1:33am | IP Logged 
Cavesa wrote:
Merci pour l'info.

Tu peux lire des BD aussi. Asterix est un choix merveilleux et il y a plein d'autres a
decouvrir.

Mais franchement, tu crois pas que des livres comme "Get started in French" soient un
peu trop faciles pour toi maintenent? :-D

C'est rigolo, je t'avais deja demande sur Fluenz.


En général les BD ne m'intéressent pas beaucoup. Je ne sais pas exactement pourquoi,
mais on ne se refait pas. Mais peut-être un jour j'essayerai de les lire. Je me
souviens d'avoir lu d'Astérix à l'école un peu et c'était bon, mais les autres BD ne
m'intéressaient pas.

"Get Started in French" est un cours. Avec les cours j'analyse tout et même avec ce
cours il y a plein de nouveaux mots à apprendre quand même. En fait si je lis un livre
pour enfants à ma fille je découvre encore des mots que je ne reconnais pas. C'est
aussi utile pour moi d'utiliser "Easy French Reader" de R. de Roussy de Sales parce
qu'on dit on général qu'on améliora notre niveau de la langue si on connaît 98% des
mots là-dedans. Je trouve que ça renforce le grammaire et les mots que j'ai déjà
appris tandis que je découvre le sens des nouveaux mots.

PM
1 person has voted this message useful



PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3953 days ago

821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1

 
 Message 416 of 451
15 June 2015 at 3:55pm | IP Logged 
A new (version of an old?) flashcard dilemma

So unlike previous FC dilemma's I'm not going to jump up and down (on the inside) and freak out over this
issues i'm having. Basically FC's lately have been enjoyable, but once again too slow in creating them. I
worked out an awesome new FC layout system which enabled me to have more exposure to my L2... it goes
like this (my deck has 2 directions- traditionally they were French to English, and, English to French):

Direction 1: (answering right/wrong based on side 2- English)
side 1: French word (with example sentences)
side 2: English word (with English equivalents of those example sentences)
side 3: word classification eg nf, nm, adj, vt etc, phonetics if deemed necessary
plus French definition included on this same side

Direction 2: (answering right/wrong based on side 3- French)
side 1: French definition of word plus clue such as sub for substantif or vt for transitive verb
side 2: English word (with example sentences as previously explained)
side 3: French word (with the French example sentences)
side 4: word classification eg nf,nm,adj,adv whatever.

The card layouts are pretty cool. The fact I can have 2 directions, can add my side 1 to the bottom of my side
4 to create side 3 in direction 1 is pretty versatile. The fact that I can have 4 sides (more if required) is pretty
cool and decide which order they appear in and even if combined on same side as another. In fact I could
have different an audio of side 3 on the text of side 4 with the pic of side 1 not that I want to.

....Anyway I like the French defintions coming up first for direction 2 as it takes away the reliance on English
and feels more 'immersive'.

However... time time and time----------------------------------- too much of it! to create cards. I'm entering
examples to provide context- reading could do this. I'm using French definitions now to immerse myself,
getting away from translated cards would do this. And I'm still on the enter every word thing- I can't bear to
delete any cards or my deck.

Then i decided that what does it matter if it takes a while to enter 10-15 words thoroughly... Then I realised
that studying for 2 hours and entering only 14 or 15 words whether thorough learning or not is not efficient.
So I sought some opinions and read this:

Don't use flashcards!

Part of me became excited about ditching my cards as I thought back to when I used French in Action back in
2000 and fumbled my way through a decent (long-ish) conversation with a French Canadian at a
bar/restaurant one night. French felt more 'natural' then and less 'robotic?' But, then I fretted (not then in
2000, then like half an hour ago)- what about all the difficult words- the rarer ones, what about the frequency
lists, nice vocab books I have with beautiful pictures...

I read the thread here on HTLAL "Sick and tired of SRS" in which emk put forward his methods again on how
he loves to delete. He's advised me the same at times (and along with many others not to enter every word).
My theory on entering every word was that sooner or later my vocab would reach a point where i'm no longer
entering many words as I would have a vocab of say 30,000 words covering much mainstream material out
there. But, do I really want to enter another 20,000 words to my FC deck? at this rate?

Solutions:
Solution A)
Don't delete my deck, but stop using it, create a new one with strict limitations (and perhaps a new take such
as all sentence cards in which I type the answers)... I'd for example only enter RARE words, or DIFFICULT
words (yelling to myself in attempt to drum it into my own head). And when coming across vocab lists, or
word lists in my French learning mags (love them btw) I'd enter them for the short term and NOT BE AFRAID
TO DELETE THEM. I'd cover more ground with native materials and even courses.

Solution B)
In my rotation of study hours (an hour intensive/ an hour extensive) every intensive hour i can paint the town
red with flashcards and rediculous examples. Then every extensive hour I don't touch the FCs at all (no
reviewing, no adding of words). This would combine the two extremes.

Solution C)
I combine solution A with Solution B and basically add only rare words to my new deck (perhaps in sentence
form) or words from my words lists or whatever which i'd be happy to delete relatively quickly. And during my
extensive study not add any or perhaps apply the same philosophy- rare words or difficult words that keep
popping up.

Solution D)
Rid myself of FCs altogether (unlikely, but still a possibility)

I'm currently leaning towards Solution C- New deck, few entries, more exposure to all materials.

I will totally understand if I get little response out of this post, so please don't feel compelled to reply out of
pity for my recycling of an old issue. I'm thinking out loud, but still if you want to reply you're absolutely
welcome. Fry a hat, for hat's sake

PM


Edited by PeterMollenburg on 15 June 2015 at 4:00pm



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