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Arekkusu’s TAC 2012 Team ne nur | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Luai_lashire Diglot Senior Member United States luai-lashire.deviant Joined 5826 days ago 384 posts - 560 votes  Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: Japanese, French | Message 305 of 407 22 April 2012 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | ||
I have to slightly disagree. It depends on the learner. I have noticed that the majority of people seem to be unable to pick up pitch this way, but personally, I find it works best for me. Every time we were instructed in pitch in my Japanese class, it was useless to me (the teachers were actually wrong sometimes!); but I actually have quite good pitch accent (even my very strict teachers have said so) and I picked it all up from listening and copying. I am a better-than-average mimic, so that's probably why it works for me, but I'm sure there are others out there with this skill, too. I do worry that I don't have the right pitch when I learn a new word by reading, but I try to listen as much as possible in the hopes that I will hear words I've only read before and be able to pick up their pitch; besides which, I am pretty good at predicting what patterns there are in pitch accents. So it's imperfect, but it does work all right, especially given the lack of materials for learning pitch. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 306 of 407 22 April 2012 at 9:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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Although I'm very reluctant to do so, I will entertain the idea that a person may pick up
on all those subtleties only through listening and copying, but that person will take a long time and will need a massive amount of exposure. On the other hand, I know many language learners who lived in Japan for many years and never did pick it up. I know Steve Kaufmann didn't know of pitch, nor did he care about it, despite living in Japan for 9 years, and listening to Khatz's videos (from AJATT), it's obvious he hasn't picked up the pitch on even the most common words like aru and iru. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 307 of 407 24 April 2012 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm writing this here so that I force myself to actually finish the project...
I started drafting a video on Japanese pitch. I will cover the concept of mora (essential in understanding pitch), then go on to provide an overview of the high/low system, the effect of pitch, and I'll explain some of the most common changes affecting the pitch of nouns and verbs. Anything specific anyone would like to see covered? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 308 of 407 25 April 2012 at 1:24am | IP Logged | ||
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mora is the same concept as in haikus, right? :)
/#justrandomlycurious 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 309 of 407 25 April 2012 at 4:24am | IP Logged | ||
Indeed, haikus are made up of 17 morae. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hiiro Yui Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4715 days ago 111 posts - 126 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 310 of 407 25 April 2012 at 4:31am | IP Logged | ||
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Oh my god, Arekkusu! I'll finally be able to hear your Japanese?
I've been waiting so long to hear how you handle intonation. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to read your posts about how good you are at mimicry and not be able to hear it. Actually, I listened to your Finnish sound file and thought, "Wow. He sounds like he really can pick up foreign accents easily. Now, why doesn't he post something in Japanese?" I have a request: Could you do the whole video in Japanese? Heck, it might be another year before you post something again, so I'm gonna need something to hold me over 'til then. I was upset that you said you didn't know what to talk about on your Youtube channel. The answer is so obvious to me: you should debate! I registered on Youtube just so I could pull you into a debate in Japanese. I'll post such a video soon. Don't worry. I have a very gentlemanly debate style that you may like. Besides, you'll be able to help me get rid of my American accent. Edited by Hiiro Yui on 26 April 2012 at 12:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 311 of 407 25 April 2012 at 5:01am | IP Logged | ||
このビデオを日本語でしないと思う理由はア クセントを日本語を学んでいる人に教えたい からです。 I won't be doing the video in Japanese because the point is to teach pitch accent to foreigners. Moreover, I don't have the ability to talk with such technical prowess. However, I will be giving lots of examples in Japanese, including whole sentences, and perhaps a paragraph or two that I would dissect. You registered on Youtube just so you could pull me into a debate in Japanese? Is this a joke? I really care about Japanese pitch and I want to learn it well, but I make mistakes all the time. It's by far the worst aspect of my pronunciation in any of the languages I know. If you want to hear me, you can hear my participation in a speech contest 2 years ago speech contest -- go to slide 58. Remember that this was about a year and a half into my study, that I was nervous, but also that I had rehearsed the speech quite a bit. Edited by Arekkusu on 25 April 2012 at 5:34am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hiiro Yui Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4715 days ago 111 posts - 126 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 312 of 407 25 April 2012 at 5:32am | IP Logged | ||
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Um, I can't get that link to work. I tried removing the space in "c e714a04", but....
Like you, I'm a bit reluctant to post things online. As I mentioned before, I intentionally avoid speaking Japanese because I don't want any bad habits. I kinda want to sound like those NHK newscasters. Because I don't practice speaking, I am particularly afraid of letting people see just how bad I am at spontaneous speech. I wrote that I would post a video in order to force myself to actually go ahead with it, just like you. When I say "debate", think of the kind of posts you write on this forum, only using spoken words. I intended for this to be a learning experience for both of us. よろしくお願いします。 1 person has voted this message useful |
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