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Endelig norsk. Igjen. Alltid - TAC 2013 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5422 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 273 of 338 26 June 2013 at 7:45am | IP Logged |
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Currently working through Bo i Norge and I'm focusing on just learning to understand all the words, the text as a whole, and the audio. I find the grammatical exercises in textbooks a bit tiresome and hard to remember at first. I prefer just reading and learning from lots of content and then dip into my grammar book. Gets much easier to remember grammar rules after getting a lot of experience with the language and I just start picking up patterns anyway.
It seems you do some novel reading too which is good. I actually have a wee method for reading a book and its translation side-by-side to create a make-shift bilingual text. Might give you some ideas. I don't tend to do it quite so much now, just to relax and comfortably absorb some of the language. Need to do more concentrated experiments over a few days to see how useful it could be. The link is under my name and pertains to my own reading of novels in Norwegian using this method. After I moved to college though, my free time vanished so didn't get to take it far! If you are looking for a good grammar book, get "Norwegian: An Essential Grammar" by Åse-Berit and Rolf Strandskogen. It is so much better than "Norwegian Verbs and Essentials of Grammar" by Louis Janus. It's a well written book granted, but the writer is not a native speaker and the book is littered with dozens of errors, from spelling mistakes, unnatural language and just plain wrong explanations at times. If Louis were to release an amended addition, it could be great. An often overlooked textbook which I can glowingly recommend is "Learn Norwegian" by Sverre Klouman. Some bits can get a bit dry but the very detailed explanations of grammar are up there with the best of them, clear but thorough and covers things I've never seen in other books. It probably teaches more grammar than any other textbook course out there. Not only that but you learn a lot about informal and colloquial speech and how to make your Norwegian feel more relaxed. If you need help tracking it down, let me know. I know some stores who might have one of these books, usually quite cheaply. If you need the audio, I recorded the audio from the cassettes to digital and can send you the mp3s. Lastly, have you tried Learning With Texts yet? I managed to set it up with an excellent online dictionary and it makes reading articles much easier; I can just look up a word at the push of a button and store the translation for future reference. When a word that has been saved appears in another text, the translation is stored and if you forgot the word, just hover your mouse over for the translation. Words saved can also be exported to anki or tested using the programme's facilities. Let me know if you are interested and I'd be glad to help you get it set up. If you are able to soldier through textbooks, that's great but try not to forget to spend a good amount of time reading native content too, learning the words you don't know as you go. Do enough of that and try to notice how certain things are phrased and you will internalise this stuff over time and be able to use it in active speech. The fact that you will meet words in many different contexts makes them far easier to truly understand and internalise. It helps if you truly enjoy what you read too. Novels are great but troublesome to look up words without an electronic copy in a format which allows you to copy out the text. Jeg må beklage at jeg har skrevet så forferdelig mye, men håper at det blir nyttig til deg. Hvis du vil gjerne få mer opplysning, bare send meg en beskjed. Jeg kan gi deg opplysninger om en veldig nyttig ordbok på nettet. Jeg kunne hjelpe å lære deg om hvordan kan du bruker Learnng With Texts, og så kan jeg anbefale nettsider hvorhen kan du lese mange artikler som er skrevet med ganske enkelt norsk. De skriver om seriøs emner, kultur, politikk, Norge og Verden blant annet. Men setningene som de bruker i artiklene, er verken så ordrik eller så lang. Bare kort, presis Norsk til utlendinger. Når blir det for enkelt, kan du finne artikler fra andre nettsider om emner du synes er interresant. Det virker som at for det meste, det viktigste ting man kan gjøre er å leser så mye som mulig og fortsette med læring av nye ord. Å lese ting man liker også hjelper med motivasjon, og skulle forberede man til å lese og forstå dag-til-dag media uten å ha tungt for å forstå. De kursenene "På Vei", "Stein på Stein" og "Her på Berget" skal sannsynlig forberede deg til å ta Bergenstestet, hvis du vil. Etter du har studert de tre bøkene skal du få en skikkelig god grunnvoll til nivå B2, minst til å forstå. Deretter kan du lese, lytter til språket, snakke så mye som mulig, og fortsette å lære nye ord hver dag fra teskter som du har lest. Jeg har lært Norsk nesten bare fra å lese artikler og romaner og med noen forklaringer fra bøker om grammatikk. Jeg beundre deg fordi du kan lese raskt gjennom en bok, absorbere mye av det men også har det moro. Nå tror jeg at jeg må jobbe hardt selv. Lykke til med alt og hvis du vil gjerne ha litt hjelp om Learning With Texts osv. bare send en beskjed. :) P.S. Forresten, det finnes sannsynlig flere feil i tekstet. Hvis noen kan gi meg korreksjoner, det vil jeg sette stor pris på. Edited by jazzboy.bebop on 26 June 2013 at 6:07pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5170 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 274 of 338 26 June 2013 at 5:29pm | IP Logged |
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This was the longest post at this topic =) Thank you jazzboy
The fact the list started with På Vei might have left the wrong impression that I'm a beginner, but that is far from true. In fact, I've employed so many textbooks up to now: Assimil Norvégien Teach Yourself Norwegian (1994) Norwegian in Three Months Colloquial Norwegian Teach Yourself Norwegian (1944) Linguaphone Norwegian En to tre Ny i Norge Norsk for utlendinger 1 Norsk for utlendinger 2 Finishing Linguaphone Norwegian represented the milestone that from then on I could take longer texts of Norwegian each day and dream about native materials. I'm far, far away from reading fluency but I think I'm at a low B1 now. It only happened in May, so in fact it's been just about a month that I've started with the target-language only learning approach. I agree with exercises in classroom textbooks being awfully boring! I did them during the self-teaching textbooks but stopped thereafter. As for the translation side-by-side, that is more practical but my Kabalmysteryet is a DRM-protected epub stored at the iPad, while my translation in Portuguese is just apdf =D Still, since I like to look up idioms word-by-word to get the essence of them, I can do well with just the original and a translation at different sources now. I can read one sentence at each and compare, since my short-term memory is not that bad, even with all those distractions from work. I have both grammar books. Thanks for the info about Louis Janus' book, I've heard about him since Norskklassen and now at a FB group, I think it's still a good book but of course I'll try the other one with more attention. I don't think I need that much grammar for Norwegian right now, first because I'm not producing actively yet and second because I can infer a lot of the grammar from the context. As for Learn Norwegian, I'll pass since I don't have access to it and I think I wouldn't need it at this stage. I'll definitely forward the recommendation to whoever asks me, since I have been aware of its reputation myself. I could understand pretty much well your Norwegian! I'm still a bit shy about writing such long sentences, but I suspect it will happen naturally sooner than expected. I'm really excited about the idea that "Her på Berget" would bring me to B2, the fact that I got hold of such good, attested resources is encouraging for me as a learner. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5422 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 275 of 338 26 June 2013 at 6:01pm | IP Logged |
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Well you've chosen a good set of books to get to B2 level. These are the books most people use in order to reach the level required to pass the Bergenstest which allows people to work in a profession like medicine, or to go to university.
If you ever get hold of any paper books in Norwegian and have the Portuguese version of the book too, check out my blog for some info on comfortably reading both books simultaneously and how to keep your place in the text. The Janus book overall I'd also say is good. He does have good explanations but it is a shame that there are so many errors. If he gets a corrected reprint done it would be fantastic. Good to hear my Norwegian is understandable, very rarely write in it! Your Norwegian seems to be coming along nicely too. I think once you've had more experience reading a lot of Norwegian you will just start to feel what is right and what is wrong and will get the confidence to write more complex sentences. Have you heard of Klar Tale? It's that news site I was talking about which has articles in simple Norwegian. Good way to pick up vocabulary in context without getting an overload of new words. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5170 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 276 of 338 26 June 2013 at 6:24pm | IP Logged |
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Yep I know Klar Tale, I take a look at it now and then.
Nice tip :) I do it digitally by just selecting the word I got stuck at, while I alternate to the dictionary's tab. Of course you need actual text instead of a scan made of pictures in order to do that. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5170 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 277 of 338 01 July 2013 at 7:48pm | IP Logged |
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I've come a point at På Vei at which it's wise to keep the 1 lesson a day approach. Lessons are long and intense on vocabulary, they're a bit more like B1-level. So, now I had better focus on that one lesson and be sure I'm not leaving any important vocabulary gaps behind. I may finish På Vei this week but then Stein pµ Stein comes right after. I don't want to get burnout at the textbook study, because later in the afternoon I do the native materials study, and I want to be at ease with that so I can keep reading a couple of pages at the great novel Kabalmysteryet :)
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| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5170 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 278 of 338 04 July 2013 at 7:43pm | IP Logged |
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Done with På Vei! What a nice textbook! Colorful, with plenty of exercises and covering interesting topics. Let Stein på Stein come!
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| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5170 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 279 of 338 08 July 2013 at 11:55pm | IP Logged |
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So, I've started with Stein på Stein. Lessons are long but pretty much doable. I only have to look up a couple of words. The advantage of having longer lessons is that one can cover subjects in depth and get more context. The more advanced the textbooks, the more authentic the text is, anyway.
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| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5170 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 280 of 338 11 July 2013 at 7:56pm | IP Logged |
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I think I'm taking a good stitch of Norwegian each day.
I started early in the morning with two Anki decks, one with 20 sentences and another one with on avergae 100 sentences with audio. Each lesson at Stein på Stein consists of about 10 pages with dialogues and texts. I skip some questionnaires and there are the pictures as well, but that still means quite a few net pages. It takes me less and less time to read them, fortunately, and I have to look up few words per text. Then in the afternoon I read 8 pages from Kabalmysteriet on average. My epub edition has 490 pages. I look up words both in the dictionary and in the translation. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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