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Super Challenge discussion thread 2014

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Mani
Diglot
Senior Member
Germany
imsprachendickicht.b
Joined 4634 days ago

258 posts - 323 votes 
Speaks: German*, English
Studies: French, Swedish, Portuguese, Latin, Welsh, Luxembourgish

 
 Message 97 of 432
11 February 2014 at 12:46pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
Well it's not downright impossible but it puts the learners of these languages at a huge disadvantage compared to French, Spanish etc. And I'm speaking about the reading part here.
When the only person who's completed a challenge in a Slavic language is Russian, you know there's a problem.


I'm afraid I disagree with you on this, not completely, but still ... because looking at the data of the participants ranking 1-30 I simply think it's a matter of language choice and focusing on a "main language" in this challenge.

All in all the first 30 people enrolled with 66 reading challenges (20 HC/34 SC/12 AV) with languages divided up the following way:

Romance (29) : Germanic (17) : Japanese/Korean/Chinese (11) : Slavic (5) : Semitic (2) : Other (2)

Looking at the achievements of the participants most of them did focus on either a Romance or a Germanic language as "main language" and let the other languages run along (though some read a lot in several of their languages). This certainly did manipulate the "success" of the Romance/Germanic languages over the other ones.

Here's why I don't completely disagree with you: I think you're right on the fact that the accessibility of material in one of the major Romance/Germanic languages is certainly much higher than for other languages (unless you live in an area where your TL is spoken) and when you start out as a native speaker of a Romance/Germanic language the vocabulary of another Romance/Germanic language is certainly less opaque than the vocabulary of another language from the Indo-European family not to speak of a language outside the IE family.

Edited by Mani on 11 February 2014 at 12:47pm

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g-bod
Diglot
Senior Member
United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5711 days ago

1485 posts - 2002 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese
Studies: French, German

 
 Message 98 of 432
11 February 2014 at 2:01pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
Well it's not downright impossible but it puts the learners of these
languages at a huge disadvantage compared to French, Spanish etc. And I'm speaking about the
reading part here.


I'm fairly confident I could complete a Japanese SC now, but my reading skills are already
around B2. I was an early drop out for the last challenge, partly because I couldn't keep up
with the rule changes early on but mainly because it was too reading heavy for the stage I
was at at the time. Given how reading Japanese has felt like hitting my head against a wall
it was a real shock at how much easier, and beneficial, it is for me to read French.

However, the fact that Japanese is a difficult language to read is hardly news. You either
accept it and get on with things or give up in frustration. So I don't think it should
necessarily have an impact on the form of the challenge, just management of expectations
would perhaps help people not get disheartened. Maybe we need some kind of reading support
group for difficult languages!
1 person has voted this message useful



Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 5063 days ago

4143 posts - 8864 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 99 of 432
11 February 2014 at 2:15pm | IP Logged 
Ok. I have wanted this discussion to go on for a while, in the hope that "the common wish" be known to me, so that I could base my descision on somewhat of a consensus.

I see however that there are several different views, so I will just have to make a descision.

1. We will continue with a 100/100 goal for books and movies. BUT, each 50 pages will next time be counted as one book, which in effect brings the reading part down to half. This means that it is humanly possible to do two Super Challenges, or to do a double Super Challenge. The latter should do absolute wonders for your target language.

My recommendation is to do only one Super Challenge - particularly if you start at a very low level. I tried one Super Challenge in Russian starting from A1, and as the weak character I am, I also added an Advanced Super Challenge in French and half a Super Challenge in German. Bad choice. But even the bad choice gave me an enormous boost in my French - which is the one I covered most material in, and helped with my Russian and my German.

I will not say that you cannot do more than one, but I am considering whether we should have an upper limit of three languages, like they have in the Tadoku.

2. It seems that the one thing everyone agrees on is the star system. So let's do that. This would mean that we get one star for every 50 films we watch, and for every 50 books (of 50 pages) that we read.

You can assemble as many stars as you want or can, but in order to get on the list of winners of the Super Challenge you must have both a reading and a movie part in the same language. I will however also have a special list for those who finished for only the movie part, and a special mentioning of the person who assembled most stars regardless of combination.

3. For simplicity's sake, there will be no half challenges, only full challenges, but when we get to the end of next year, those who have reached a star in both categories of the same language, will still get credited for half a challenge.

I just do not want the plethora of different choices (A Super Challenge with double French Fries, cheese and mayo on the side - or something to that effect, as one so aptly said it). I want it simple.

4. The actual Super Challenge will therefore still be just reading and watching movies, but if Surrealix is up for it, you are free to add writing and speaking. You just will not need it to be a Super Challenge winner.

5. The idea behind the challenge was to focus on one language, and one alone, and that we use the Taduko or the 6WC for our other languages. It is not possible to fit every variant of a language schedule into this one challenge, so I strongly encourage you to use the other challenges.

6. Please keep in mind that when you ask how much this or that counts, a poem or a cartoon or whatever, my answer will only be a guideline, because I do not see the page that you see. If you think it is deeply unfair to have to count 5 pages of a cartoon as one, then count 3 or 2 - if there is so much text on it, that in your best judgement, that would be the best way to count it. I have onced called that "The Golden Rule". Apply it. When I started this thing, I wanted people to be motivated and to get an energy boost in their studies. If you think something is unfair, you will not be motivated.

7. The 100/100 rule applies to all levels and all languages, but again, if Surrealix can make it happen, it would be great to mention the level you start out from. For an English speaker, to start a Japanese from A2 or a French from C1 is two very differents ballgames.

Are there still any loose ends, or do we have everything covered now?

And I agree with Kerrie. Serpent rocks, Super Challenge or no Super Challenge :-)

Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 11 February 2014 at 2:19pm

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DaraghM
Diglot
Senior Member
Ireland
Joined 5880 days ago

1947 posts - 2923 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian

 
 Message 100 of 432
11 February 2014 at 3:17pm | IP Logged 
What are the rules for the film part of the challenge ? I originally thought it was just actual films, but does any viewing in the TL count ? Does it also include extensive or intensive listening ?
1 person has voted this message useful



Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 5063 days ago

4143 posts - 8864 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 101 of 432
11 February 2014 at 3:21pm | IP Logged 
Any viewing in the TL counts, but if you do listening it would have to be intensive to count. Having the radio
on in your TL while having a family dinner would typically not count.
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emk
Diglot
Moderator
United States
Joined 5261 days ago

2615 posts - 8806 votes 
Speaks: English*, FrenchB2
Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 102 of 432
11 February 2014 at 3:23pm | IP Logged 
I like the nice simple challenges! Thank you so much Solfrid for organizing this.

Solfrid Cristin wrote:
1. We will continue with a 100/100 goal for books and movies. BUT, each 50 pages will next time be counted as one book, which in effect brings the reading part down to half. This means that it is humanly possible to do two Super Challenges, or to do a double Super Challenge. The latter should do absolute wonders for your target language.

OK, let me summarize, to make sure I'm up to speed for the ribbons. :-)

2012/2013 Challenge: 10,000 pages, 150 hours of films.
2014/2015 Challenge: 5,000 pages, 150 hours of films.

Do I have that right?

Quote:
2. It seems that the one thing everyone agrees on is the star system. So let's do that. This would mean that we get one star for every 50 films we watch, and for every 50 books (of 50 pages) that we read.

Another question. Do you mean:

1. "One star for every 2,500 pages and 75 hours, combined" or
2. "One star for every 2,500 pages another one star for every 75 hours"?

As the person who does ribbons, I actually kinda prefer choice (1), because it will mean less work for me. But I'm not sure which choice you meant.

Once you answer these questions, I'll explain how we're going to handle ribbons for 2012/2013.
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6326 days ago

9753 posts - 15779 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 103 of 432
11 February 2014 at 3:26pm | IP Logged 
g-bod wrote:
Serpent wrote:
Well it's not downright impossible but it puts the learners of these languages at a huge disadvantage compared to French, Spanish etc. And I'm speaking about the reading part here.


I'm fairly confident I could complete a Japanese SC now, but my reading skills are already around B2.
The question was about the original challenge, which was 100/100 and only at B1 or lower (otherwise 200/200). I agree that when you're at B2 you can complete the challenge in any single language.

Cristina, that's awesome! Just please don't force me to register and unregister by limiting it to three languages.

Also 2) made it sound like the actual challenge is 200 items, and it's up to you if you do 100/100 or 150/50, as long as you complete a star in both parts. No?

and 7) - it would be great if listing your level was only required if you're a C1 or C2 (or an iron solid B2 ready to pass a test at that level). I have no clue how to list my level in most of my languages for example, but I'd happily make it clear that I've already reached advanced fluency in Finnish (and English).

Edited by Serpent on 11 February 2014 at 4:03pm

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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6326 days ago

9753 posts - 15779 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 104 of 432
11 February 2014 at 3:35pm | IP Logged 
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
Any viewing in the TL counts, but if you do listening it would have to be intensive to count. Having the radio
on in your TL while having a family dinner would typically not count.
I don't think anyone considered listening in the background. Intensive reading is looking up everything and maybe doing hyperliteral translations and basically working half an hour (or even more) with one page of text. Intensive listening is also something like that - it's all about rewinding, transcripts, all the cool stuff from GLOSS. I personally don't bother to count it, but if you do, of course you only count the time actually spent listening and not looking up or writing out the transcript. However there's no penalty for listening to the same thing more than once, just like reading the same book twice also counts.

Extensive listening is more common for this challenge though :)

Edited by Serpent on 11 February 2014 at 3:36pm



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