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Super Challenge discussion thread 2014

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
432 messages over 54 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 27 ... 53 54 Next >>
Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 5063 days ago

4143 posts - 8864 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 209 of 432
09 April 2014 at 7:54pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
Basically, if you listen and read in two non-native languages, both count.


Can you give me an example of how this works? I am not quite sure I follow you here?
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Serpent
Octoglot
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Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
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 Message 210 of 432
09 April 2014 at 8:37pm | IP Logged 
My LR in Italian-Danish for example. Italian text, Danish audio, surely this is basically working on two items at the same time? But if I did Italian text+Italian audio, of course I shouldn't count it twice.

BTW thanks for your wonderful post earlier :')
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Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 5063 days ago

4143 posts - 8864 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 211 of 432
09 April 2014 at 9:16pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
My LR in Italian-Danish for example. Italian text, Danish audio, surely this is basically
working on two items at the same time? But if I did Italian text+Italian audio, of course I shouldn't count it
twice.

BTW thanks for your wonderful post earlier :')


I am a big fan of efficiency, and of "using the time on both sides", but I am not quite sure that this would
count twice. I think it would make more sense to chose your weakest language and make it count for that.
Can you remind me where and when this was discussed? I do not recall that it was ever decided that you
could count both. If we were to follow that logic, then if I watched a French film with Russian subtitles, then I
could count two films.

And you're welcome. I imagined you would be pleased:-)
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6326 days ago

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 Message 212 of 432
09 April 2014 at 9:40pm | IP Logged 
That's about LR though, not subtitles. You can count the subtitles the way you'd count them as book pages.

I never felt like I needed approval for that because it was obvious to me that "choose one" only applies to when they're in the same language. Otherwise by your wording it could be possible to do LR with L1 text, L2 audio and count it for reading. I think what you said about fairness totally applies here. No, that's not something everyone can do, but neither is classic LR. It's all about finding ways to compensate. I'm not a default person who likes movies, for example.

The point is, I did that to improve my knowledge of both languages, not just one. The most notable example would be Italian-Polish LR I did when I was still very new to Polish, but even more new to reading in Italian (though I had done a lot of listening by then). Due to the similarity between Polish and Russian, I got the translations of most Italian words I didn't know, and the audio also helped me read faster. But I also learned a lot of Polish from that, since even with identical words you need exposure. I took care of the "unknown knowns". For the 6 week challenge, I divided the minutes spent between Italian and Polish, but SC reading is not counted in minutes, of course.

It's all about combining your strong points in two languages. In a non-fluent language, extensive reading with any corresponding audio is better than no audio, whether it's L1, L2 or L3. BTW I wouldn't choose the weaker language even if you forced me to choose one. I completed the Italian reading challenge but not Danish listening. Reading pages are hard to get under your belt, and to me the only difference between multilingual LR and reading with music on is that LR requires much more focus. And in both cases, the audio helps the focus. Not to mention that with the level restriction lifted, people will read for various purposes, including keeping your knowledge alive or finding out some factual information. My main goal is using Russian as little as possible, and this is how it applies to the challenge. I know your goal is the opposite :), but surely it's better for your Russian if you watch French with Russian subtitles than if you watch it without them?

I think a far more fair comparison than movies would be parallel texts, or learning materials in L2. I strongly believe that when you're learning L3 through L2, both should count, no matter which method you use. Otherwise it's a lot more discouraging than not having half challenges.

Edited by Serpent on 09 April 2014 at 10:36pm

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Kerrie
Senior Member
United States
justpaste.it/Kerrie2
Joined 5124 days ago

1232 posts - 1740 votes 
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Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 213 of 432
09 April 2014 at 11:36pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:

In a non-fluent language, extensive reading with any corresponding audio is better than no audio, whether it's L1, L2 or L3.


Wow.

I musta missed the whole point of the Super Challenge.

As someone who actually read 10,000 pages in one language for the last challenge, I would beg to differ.
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6326 days ago

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 Message 214 of 432
10 April 2014 at 12:00am | IP Logged 
A better wording could've been "in a language where you don't read fluently". You may not consider yourself overall fluent in Spanish but given that you can now read 500+ pages in a couple of days you are a fluent reader by anyone's standards.
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Kerrie
Senior Member
United States
justpaste.it/Kerrie2
Joined 5124 days ago

1232 posts - 1740 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 215 of 432
10 April 2014 at 1:02am | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
A better wording could've been "in a language where you don't read fluently". You may not consider yourself overall fluent in Spanish but given that you can now read 500+ pages in a couple of days you are a fluent reader by anyone's standards.


I have never read 500+ pages of Spanish in a couple of days.

I am not a fluent reader in Spanish. I can read easy books with a dictionary. If you're thinking about Divergent, which I read a few weeks ago, it is written for kids, and it is entirely in the present tense.

And as for your premise that any audio is better than no audio when reading, I would still disagree. There are things that your brain processes differently when you read. I'm not going to argue about it, though. To each his (or her) own.

As for SC rules, I'll let Cristina make a decision about one activity counting for two things. She's the boss. :D
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6326 days ago

9753 posts - 15779 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 216 of 432
10 April 2014 at 1:26am | IP Logged 
Well I don't remember what your exact numbers were but something similarly impressive. And reading fluency is about ease, not comprehension.

I guess my rule of thumb is: if you can read faster than the narrator speaks, don't use audio; otherwise it can only make extensive reading better. And there are exceptions like those who perhaps rely too much on the audio because it's much easier for them, but it's a very small percentage of learners, I think. Most don't do anywhere near enough listening, which is one of the points of this challenge.

Also, it can be said that you're a fluent reader in a given context. When you read something more difficult, you'll find audio beneficial again.

Edited by Serpent on 10 April 2014 at 2:17am



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