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5 years of 日本語 TAC 13 桜/Schnitzel | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| yuhakko Tetraglot Senior Member FranceRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4431 days ago 414 posts - 582 votes  Speaks: French*, EnglishB2, EnglishC2, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Korean, Norwegian, Mandarin | Message 273 of 436 17 July 2013 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'd say maybe what you need is to analyze well every new orthography you find. The "eau",
"au", "o", etc. are all pronounced the same way and we have many of those but when you'll have figured them all out, you'll see that it's not that difficult. Of course spoken french is another problem since you won't be able to figure out which writing to use but this is something that needs to be learnt one by one... unfortunately for you! :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4983 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 274 of 436 17 July 2013 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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It was definitely Collins. I had the Spanish version of their dictionary on my desk at work. I really liked their
series. My dad had recommended it to me saying the grammar section alone was worth the money. I particularly liked their orthography and pronunciation section at the beginning of the book. I wish they made a Japanese dictionary too. It seems the only Japanese dictionaries you can get are of the pocket variety or not much bigger. That said audio resources are great too. ^_^ 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5781 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 275 of 436 18 July 2013 at 10:10pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yesterday was a very special day. It was the 5th birthday of my Japanese project. Exactly five years ago yesterday, I sat down and did the first Pimsleur lesson and made the commitment to try and learn this beautiful and mysterious language.
As a very rough estimate, I think I've probably invested some 3000 hours into Japanese over the last five years. In contrast, I think I have probably put in around 1000 hours in French, mostly through 7 years of high school classes. Somehow I have a similar level in both of them (insofar as I can do TV in Japanese to the same extent as I can do books in French, and can pick my way through a conversation in both at a similar level on a good day) I've put a lot more work into Japanese - the difference in "difficulty" between the two languages is now very obvious to me. In the last 12 months or so, I've had what could be described as "commitment issues". I'm finding it hard to set goals and stick to them, because I don't really know what I want any more. If I put another 3000 hours into Japanese over the next five years, I would hopefully level up into the "C" zone. I'd hope with the same investment of time and effort in a language like French I'd even hit the elusive "C2" barrier and start to experience a bold new world beyond it. Who knows where I'd get with 3000 hours of German on top of the tourist level I have now, which has maybe cost me around 100 hours so far. I'd hope it would also be well into the "C" level. I think I could definitely find a way of investing another 3000 hours into languages over the next 5 years. The thing is, there's no way I could invest 6000, and certainly not 9000. It's not to say I wouldn't make progress if I put 1000 hours into each of my languages, but whether that would be enough to bring me to C1 (let alone C2), I have no idea. And to be honest, this is all unknown territory for me. I have experience of taking two languages to B1 level (charitably you could say B1/B2 for Japanese), one through traditional education and the other through mainly self-guided study. I don't know what it feels like to function at a higher level in any foreign language and I don't know, from personal experience, what it would take to get there. A month or two ago I felt like I'd hit a real wall with Japanese. I don't know if the foundation of this wall is down to a limitation of ability (talent), circumstances (not living in Japan), or motivation. I'm already feeling a similar amount of despair with respect to my French. I guess there is an element of fear of the unknown, and fear of failure. I know what I need to do to reach a level in a language where I can use it to actually do stuff. I don't really know what I need to do to reach a level where I can use it to do stuff well. I don't know if I have the determination to see it through with any language and furthermore, I don't know which language I want to hedge my bets with and at least attempt the challenge. It's hard when you don't know what you want. Edited by g-bod on 18 July 2013 at 10:10pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 5904 days ago 707 posts - 1219 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 276 of 436 18 July 2013 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for your honest posts g-bod, I think you express the dilemmas and frustrations of many learners.
It can be especially galling to admit one's mistakes, overly amitious plans, unrealistic goals, inflexible methods, and the frequent vascillations and tantrums. Not knowing what you want is such a dissipating force too. Ahh - the joys of learning languages! To reach a high level in 3 languages simultaneously is do-able no doubt, but if this prolongs the journey unbearably it's a tough old slog. Perhaps reaching high proficiency in just one first might bring rewards sooner and boost stamina prior to further conquests. I dream of reaching a point of effortless maintainance in my L1 to thus free me to indulge in L2,3,4 etc. but this ideal maybe a pipe dream. I won't know till I get there! Anyway, with thoses 1000's of hours banked - keep going! Best wishes. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4983 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 277 of 436 19 July 2013 at 8:09am | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah I wonder about the brickwall you get with studying a foreign language in your
native country. It would make sense that you start seeing diminishing gains at about the intermediate level whereas in a foreign country you'd see that at a more advanced level. I know some people could isolate themselves in their homes and create a total immersion environment but a lot of us have to work and socialize etc. I think though that if you're using it and enjoying it then that's the more important thing. And it makes perfect sense to me that your french is about the same as Japanese with a lot less effort. A frustrating truth for those of us who want to learn Japanese instead of a European language. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5884 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 278 of 436 19 July 2013 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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g-bod I look forward to seeing which language you pick to excel in. Arekkusu says that French gets easier the higher you go. I always think about that and it makes me feel a bit better..
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4464 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 279 of 436 20 July 2013 at 9:25pm | IP Logged | ||
I'm guessing you actually want to be "fluent" (or "at ease" or "satisfied" or whatever) in all of those languages. I know that if I'm honest, it's what I want. If I watch something in English or Italian I don't concentrate on the language, I just "understand". I'd like to be able to do the same for the French channels - after all, all those years of learning French at school and the moment I cross the channel I'm all at sea! The same goes for German and Spanish: with those 5 I should be OK in most of Europe. I'd like to be able to converse "effortlessly" with the Japanese guys at work or the ones I communicate with in email. It's going to be a long slog for me. If only I'd started sooner! See: it's hard when you do know what you want too :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5781 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 280 of 436 20 July 2013 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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If I could be fluent in all three for free of course I'd jump at it. I'd also add a few more
off my wishlist too! But knowing that I have a limited time budget, I'll have to prioritise and even then I won't get instant results in any language. I'm trying to get my head around the idea that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. If I decide to commit to one language I can still enjoy doing activities in the other two as long as it doesn't detract from my overall goal. But I have a tendency to be quite single minded and I have a deep rooted fear that activities in one language will be detrimental to another, so this concept will take some getting used to. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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