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Best Method or More Time ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| fanatic Octoglot Senior Member Australia speedmathematics.com Joined 6943 days ago 1152 posts - 1818 votes  Speaks: English*, German, French, Afrikaans, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Dutch Studies: Swedish, Norwegian, Polish, Modern Hebrew, Malay, Mandarin, Esperanto | Message 113 of 430 27 April 2008 at 3:55am | IP Logged | |||||
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If methods don't really matter, just time spent learning, is there a difference if you learn the words that hold the language together and the most common words, or if instead you spend time learning obscure words in the language?
What about the arguments on the importance of grammar? It doesn't matter what your position is, you must hold that your own view is better. What about the good and bad language courses available? If method is unimportant then it doesn't matter which course you buy. I can't believe we are having this discussion. Edited by fanatic on 27 April 2008 at 3:59am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Goindol Senior Member United States Joined 5871 days ago 165 posts - 203 votes | Message 115 of 430 27 April 2008 at 4:56am | IP Logged | |||||
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Same with sex. As long as there is INPUT and OUTPUT + TIME, any approach is as good as another.
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| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6472 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 116 of 430 27 April 2008 at 10:23am | IP Logged | |||||
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Fanatic, you can't believe it because I am attacking the core belief here, but it doesn't prove I am wrong.
It doesn't matter provided that you feel good and you get enough motivation to work hard and more time. Finally, you have to deal with the real language whatever method you use. For example: I began learning English because I had strong desire to read professional articles in English. I began reading online with online dictionaries. I worked with technical vocabulary about health and psychological staff. Useless from practical point of view. This weird and useless vocabulary was very important, because a spent several years reading these articles and websites. Later I became interested in practical English, but it would be impossible without my first weird vocabulary and technical approach. My approach is neither better or worst than starting with Assimil or Pimsleur, it's different.
It's important to do whatever you feel like to do. It is important to do whatever you feel is good for you. You can learn grammar at the beginning, in the middle or at the end. It doesn't matter provided that you have strong motivation and time. You can use language courses at the beginning, at the middle or at the end. For example , I began with pimsleur, Assimil I and II when I had around 95% reading understanding. Same with Michael Thomas. Motivation and time is the most important thing. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6472 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 117 of 430 27 April 2008 at 10:26am | IP Logged | |||||
I don't know if you are kidding, but I agree with you. Same as psychotherapy. People and a lot of professionals think their approach and techniques are the best, but there is strong scientific evidence about NOT best approach. In fact, techniques are about 10% the global equation...but this is off topic. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6472 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 118 of 430 27 April 2008 at 10:33am | IP Logged | |||||
I am not saying that taking a plunge into the ocean language it's better than comprehensible input (in spite of it's critics), I am saying it's an option and some people, some Moroccan immigrants I know, have native level using this hard approach. At first they don't understand anything, but months later, with interaction, they begin to understand chunks due to contextual clues, and more and more. You can use, Michael Thomas and jump to real language afterwards. You can use, Assimil and then jump to real language. You can use real language and then Assimil and Pimsleur and then continue with real language. Or you can do whatever you want. Finally, you will need the real staff. Edited by slucido on 27 April 2008 at 10:58am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6472 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 119 of 430 27 April 2008 at 10:56am | IP Logged | |||||
Leopejo, you have a very interesting question.
I'm saying "best method" doesn't exist. We are talking about OUTCOME, not about anything else. Regarding my affirmations, we have two of them and we can be more strict in the formulation: 1-TIME (motivation, dedication...) is the most important factor. This is a matter of FACT. If you want, this is a Big Truth. It's a fact like the sun or the moon exist. You need the language (other fact) and time, without any of them, we have nothing. 2-THERE IS NO BEST METHOD. This isn't a matter of fact. This is a hypothesis. If you want to be scientific, we have two hypothesis: 1-H0 (null hypothesis): There is NO meaningful differences between methods. 2-H1(alternative hypothesis): There is meaningful differences between methods. You can design a investigation with control groups to prove H1. If you don't get enough evidence to support H1, we have to conclude that there isn't enough evidence to rule out H0 (null hypothesis). If we want to be more scientific and strict, my affirmation is: There is NOT enough evidence to rule out H0
Yes, I have been looking for the best method for several languages long time. I am that skeptic due to my experience looking for the best method. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Leopejo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 5906 days ago 675 posts - 724 votes Speaks: Italian*, Finnish*, English Studies: French, Russian | Message 120 of 430 27 April 2008 at 11:15am | IP Logged | |||||
I was off this thread, but I came back, thanks to your good post. 1- This is your HYPOTHESIS too. TIME is important and necessary: without time, you don't learn. BUT you can't say for sure that it is the most important factor. As you said, what is important is the outcome (counting there also the fun you had while learning the language). If you have more time than me, but I have a better method, hypothetically it is perfectly possible that I learn more than you. It is the COMBINATION of time and other factors. 2- The group of people in these forums has given MUCH evidence. Someone could make a statistical study and tell us how probable your hypothesis H0 is (with all the difficulty of gathering information from the messages in this forum and accounting for all the skewing factors). Without giving you a number, I am pretty confident that your hypothesis H0 can be ruled out, at least in our group of forumists. Still, you didn't present H0 as a hypothesis to be ruled out, you presented it as TRUTH. As you put it in your newest post (H1 and H2), it's good for me. There is H1 and H2, and H1 is not 100 % certain (but good for me with enough confidence). 1 person has voted this message useful |
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