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Best Method or More Time ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6740 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes  Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 185 of 430 30 April 2008 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | ||
I am not trying to exasperate you, really, but even this statement does not apply universally. Some folks are just stubborn - they get it into their head they want to speak XYZ, and they will get there through thick and thin, love be damned. Edited by frenkeld on 30 April 2008 at 2:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| CaitO'Ceallaigh Triglot Senior Member United States katiekelly.wordpress Joined 6654 days ago 795 posts - 829 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian Studies: Czech, German | Message 186 of 430 30 April 2008 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | ||
It's time and love. If you don't love it, you're not going to take the time to do it. This was useful for me, because I am not sure if memorizing text books is the "best" method, but it's enjoyable for me. It feels good taking the time to learn a few words and phrases each day. Sooner or later, I know I'm going to get there. This thread, particularly Slucido's point of view, have been extra motivating for me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6740 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 187 of 430 30 April 2008 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | ||
Nobody would deny that engaging in activities one likes can be very helpful. No one would deny that you don't need to use the "best" method, whatever that is, provided the method you use will actually get you where you want to go on a timescale that is acceptable to you. Those are, once again, not the points people argued with in this thread, so you shouldn't take the arguments that took place here as an assault on the factors that have been motivating to you. Edited by frenkeld on 30 April 2008 at 2:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6472 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 188 of 430 30 April 2008 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you Katie. It's crystal clear they are doing a lot of mind reading. In fact I think it's something personal, because they think I am a bad person.
Well, I'll try to summarize my ideas. Like a F.A.Q.: 1-What are the key words? input+output+TIME. 2-What's more important, time or method? TIME. The more time you spend every day with the target language, the sooner you will arrive to native fluency. Your dedication, your love for the language, your intensity, your PASSION are your more important factors. 3-Do you think methods aren't important? Methods and techniques are important as long as they get you more and more motivated and get you work harder, more TIME, with more PASSION. 4-What's they level of importance of specific methods and techniques? I think the specific technique or method you use has less than 15 % of importance, even less. 5-Do you think methods and techniques are overestimated? Yes, absolutely. People waste their time looking for the bests methods and the most important think is working with the language (input+output) 6--Do you think methods need some unavoidable, element? Yes, you need INPUT and OUTPUT. That's the basic elements you need. Everything else is adornment. 7-Do you think this adornment is useless? No. It depends of the point of view. Regarding their linguistic properties it's not very important, because you only need input and output, but.... ...the adornment can be very important psychologically. If this adornment get you motivated, with more PASSION and it gets you more TIME with the language, this adornment is extremely important. 8-Do you think people can learn a language from scratch using only native materials? Yes, absolutely. 9-Do you think this is the best method? NO. I think is the best method for you as long as you feel good with that method and it stir up your passion. Neither better or worse than other method. 10-Does it applies to Korean, Chinese,Japanese, ...? Yes. 11-Are your sure? Maybe it's possible with full immersion in the country (like hundreds of ancient travelers), but useless in your own country? It'll be harder in your own country, but I believe it's possible as long this person choose this method, likes this method, get motivate and PASSIONATE with this hard method and spend more TIME. If somebody want to learn Korean from scratch, in his own country, only with real language materials and he is very motivated and passionated with this method, as long as he works hard every day and long enough, who am I to tell he is wrong? If he is wrong, he will know. We are not dealing with machines, but on SUBJECTIVE creatures. 12-Come on Slucido!!! You think DVD methods, recognition flashcards and using real materials from the beginning are the best combination (method)!!!! I have read it!!!! I think these are the best methods FOR ME and it's possible for a lot of people as well, but I think this is a huge delusion, because my feeling is SUBJECTIVE and the real reason is that I am happy because I spend more TIME and work with more PASSION. Maybe other people hates this combination, uses an opposite combinations, but their methods give them PASSION, they work HARD, more TIME they succeed like me or better than me. If you investigate people who succeed in learning languages you will find input+output and a lot of PASSION and TIME. Everything else is adornment, but as I said before, this adornment can be extremely important from the psychological point of view, but not linguistic. 13-Ok, Ok, don't get angry slucido, if you work 18 hours every day with the language, you can explode? Maybe, but do you explode with your native language? How do you manage with your native language, using it so many hours, without exploding? Do the same 'method' with your target language. Conclusion: I think people waste a lot of time looking for the best methods and techniques, People overestimate methods and they are not aware that PASSION and TIME spent with their target language are the most important factor. Edited by slucido on 30 April 2008 at 3:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ChrisWebb Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6060 days ago 181 posts - 190 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean | Message 189 of 430 30 April 2008 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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And there we have it, we arent misunderstanding him, he's saying exactly what we thought, some of it is indeed blandly uncontroversial, of course you need to spend time, no one is questioning the uncontroversial stuff.
That said though he doesnt stop there, instead he offers unsubstantiated ideas in areas he has zero experience of and worse is willing to dismiss others actual experiences as though they are the ones stuck in an ideologiocal box. At least we can presumably all agree that he is in fact saying what we have observed at this point. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6740 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 190 of 430 30 April 2008 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | ||
I've had a lot more issues with the clarity of your presentation than with your being a bad guy. Edited by frenkeld on 30 April 2008 at 7:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| CaitO'Ceallaigh Triglot Senior Member United States katiekelly.wordpress Joined 6654 days ago 795 posts - 829 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian Studies: Czech, German | Message 191 of 430 30 April 2008 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with everything he's said.
I don't think anyone disagrees with what he's said, other than he said it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6740 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 192 of 430 30 April 2008 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | ||
OK, so now we have two people who are wrong. :) Edited by frenkeld on 30 April 2008 at 4:12pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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