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Best Method or More Time ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6472 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 145 of 430 28 April 2008 at 11:28am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I agree with you. Science work like that. I don't know if tomorrow some investigators will contribute with strong evidences about best methods (H1) to learn languages. On the other, the average Joe, who want practical explanations, can deduce that we don't have any best method right now after 50 years of experience.
Yes, I did.
Learning styles are not my main argument. They talk about "learning styles" and I talk about "preferences" in a given moment. Something much more general. This preferences can change and, in the end, you will have to listen, read, speak and write the target language whatever your preferences or, if you want, your learning styles are.
I disagree. I didn't learn English grammar at the beginning and I am improving. And they are very ambiguous: "some kind of grammar instruction". This is the part you have not quoted.
:O ))) Please....What I am saying from the beginning?
:0) Have you read my previous answers? For example: I'm telling right now? "I think DVD movie methods, passive listening, writing in forums, Skype and 10,000 methods (SRS with fullrecall) are the BEST" Slucido, do you think your previous affirmation is a huge illusory and misleading delusion? YES, my affirmation is a huge illusory and misleading delusion, BUT I am very happy with my huge delusion BECAUSE I am studying more and more time...and with more and more intensity. :-) Edited by slucido on 28 April 2008 at 4:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| shapd Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5946 days ago 126 posts - 208 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Italian, Spanish, Latin, Modern Hebrew, French, Russian | Message 146 of 430 29 April 2008 at 5:12am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Slucido, I recommend you and the others interested in techniques read Earl Stevick's book Success with Foreign languages. It gives seven case studies of people who successfully learnt languages with completely different approaches. Different personality types had quite different requirements. Some needed formal grammar, some preferred second language immersion, while others could not stand formal classroom instruction of any kind. It strongly supports your view that details of methods are irrelevant, but there may be differences in efficiency. Some mastered certain aspects such as grammar or pronunciation better than others, which might be related to their preferred learning methods. So your methods may be the BEST for you, but not for me!
I found the whole book on the web, but I can't remember where. If you can't find it, give me a PM. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6472 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 147 of 430 29 April 2008 at 8:05am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Thank you. I read this ebook last year, but I have forgotten. Sometimes people work with opposite methods to learn languages, even the same person. We can find it here. It's free: http://www.sil.org/lingualinks/LANGUAGELEARNING/BooksBackInP rint/SuccessWithForeignLanguages/SuccessWithForeignLanguages .htm Table of contents: 1. An Intuitive Learner: Ann learning Norwegian 1.1 As language comes in 1.2 The power of context 1.3 Notes 2. A Formal Learner: Bert learning Chinese 2.1 Audio-lingual-style activities 2.2 Bert's other activities 2.3 Notes 3. An Informal Learner: Carla learning Portuguese and German 3.1 Sources of encouragement 3.2 Sources of conflict and discouragement 3.3 Notes 4. An Imaginative Learner: Derek learning German, Russian and Finnish 4.1 Imagination in mastering fundamentals 4.2 Imagination in using the language 4.3 Notes 5. An Active Learner: Ed learning Korean, Romanian and Swahili 5.1 Pronunciation 5.2 Vocabulary and grammar 5.3 Observing one's own mental activity 5.4 Notes 6. A deliberate learner: Frieda learning Arabic and Hebrew 6.1 Texts and grammar 6.2 Vocabulary 6.3 Pronunciation 6.4 Cultural considerations 6.5 Notes 7. A Self-aware learner: Gwen learning Japanese 7.1 Working on the mechanics of the language 7.2 Other matters 8. Summary Edited by slucido on 29 April 2008 at 8:32am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| CaitO'Ceallaigh Triglot Senior Member United States katiekelly.wordpress Joined 6654 days ago 795 posts - 829 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian Studies: Czech, German | Message 148 of 430 29 April 2008 at 11:55am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I'm learning four languages at once, and each one I learn slightly differently. I learned Spanish primarily from reading, listening, and some conversing. I started that way right from the beginning. Out of all my foreign languages, I speak that one the best, which is ironic given that I started it last (maybe three years ago).
I'm much more systematic with Russian, Czech, and German. These three are more like a side hobby, like, How many new words and phrases can I learn today? I'm not reading; I'm memorizing text books that I've found to be enjoyable. I'm not even thinking about trying to converse in any of these, 'til I've memorized these books (I flashcard software). I learn this way because it's like an addiction. How far can I get through this book? It's strangely satisfying, like washing my dishes, or cleaning my bathroom. I also studied Russian with teachers for about eight years, though. I really liked it. What I've learned from learning languages all sorts of different ways is that it doesn't matter what you do. What matters is if you find it enjoyable. If you like it, you'll just keep doing it. My plan for learning the other romance languages is to go about it as I learned Spanish, because I can somehow read French, Italian and Portuguese and understand it. Maybe I would use the L-R method (do a forum search on that phrase if you don't know what I mean; it's been discussed in great detail elsewhere) for these languages. For some reason, with Slavic languages, I want things spelled out for me. I would probably memorize text books, provided I found them to be entertaining. Or maybe not. I've noticed that Czech and Russian are so similar -- the same language with a different accent, practically -- that maybe I could try a more immersion-based method with others. We'll see. Steve Kauffman, that guy that argued endlessly with every single person on this forum, does have an interesting way to learn languages using his LingQ system (I have used it, and it is too slow for my computer). I noticed he was nicer to those who used his system, which is relevent to a degree because it made me very skeptical. In his defense, using that method, he really is learning Russian. You can find his video blogs on YouTube. His pronunciation is "okay," but nonetheless, for having learned it from only listening and reading, I think he does a decent job. Now, his is a case where I think he'd benefit from working with a teacher one-on-one, just to work out his pronunciation and grammar tweaks, but on the other hand, who's to say he wouldn't learn this naturally over time, which is a part of his "manifesto" anyway. If you love the language, you just keep at it, you keep trying to learn more, and it all falls into place. Which is why I think that it really doesn't matter what you do, as long as you keep doing it. It's all different means to the same end, right? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6740 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 149 of 430 29 April 2008 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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At the same site there are a few excerpts from a book "Ways to Approach Language Learning" by Carol J. Orwig. A brief survey of language learning methods section lists 8 possibilities, among them Approaches to language learning based on learning style, which is based, among others, on the following principles:
* Learning in your preferred learning style increases motivation and effectiveness. * Some learners have a higher tolerance for ambiguity than others. * Some learners take on a different persona when speaking another language. * Motivation affects the time spent learning a language. * Learner attitudes affect motivation. It is, however, but one of 8 different approaches listed. In Four approaches to language learning based on learning style section, the author provides the following "Tip": "It is possible to use your learning style as an excuse to do only what feels comfortable to you, leaving out activities that could greatly enhance your learning. Sometimes it is necessary to do things that do not come naturally in order to progress. For instance, ..." Edited by frenkeld on 29 April 2008 at 12:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6472 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 150 of 430 29 April 2008 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The quote continues: "...For instance, you may find it hard to get out and talk to people if you are an introvert. You can find ways to reduce this stress, but you must listen to people and talk with them to gain real communicative competence in a second language." That's why I am skeptic about learning styles. In the end, if you want native fluency, you will need listening, reading, writing and speaking practice. However, without taking preferences into account or having fun, the average person will give up the learning process. Otherwise some people need a gun in their head to get motivated. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ChrisWebb Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6060 days ago 181 posts - 190 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean | Message 151 of 430 29 April 2008 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I think to be honest you are simply mistaking your limited experience for a broader principle. In truth you have never learned a harder language and simply arent qualified to push your view as though it were axiomatic. Right now i have never taken a Spanish lesson yet can make a pretty good stab at reading easy Spanish texts, that is simply because the jump from Spanish to English is relatively easy. However try that same approach where the gap between languages is larger and it plainly and simply DOES NOT WORK. There may be no best method or it may be that there is in fact a best method and it simply hasnt been determined at this point. Either way it's highly likely that some methods will be more effective than others and some methods might be entirely ineffective. And I'm sorry that you will find that hard to accept..... Come back after learning Japanese/Korean/Mandarin using no language course material and i might be impressed. I wont hold my breath though. Edited by ChrisWebb on 29 April 2008 at 2:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6472 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 152 of 430 29 April 2008 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Why do you presuppose you have any special skill to assess anybody here? How do you know my experience? Do you have any paranormal skill to asses people through nick names?
I don't believe you. High emotional attitudes like yours don't change through reason, but emotions. However, you can take a look at alljapanaseallthetime.com. This guy is English speaker and he has learned Japanese and he don't use language courses. I am sure you will find hundreds of 'reasons' to dismiss that testimony: http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/isnt-real-japanese -too-hard-for-beginners
I am not telling that you don't use language courses to learn Japanese, Mandarin and so on. I am telling do whatever you want as long as you spend a lot of time and you have fun. I have used language course materials, but in the "wrong order" and in the "wrong time". 1 person has voted this message useful |
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