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Best Method or More Time ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6472 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 33 of 430 23 April 2008 at 11:11am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
All this products are developed by marketers and their goal is selling. About the personal methods, I think they are a huge smokescreen.
Those courses mainly give you a false sense of achievement. They aren't real, but a dead corpse of the language or a "canned language" that doesn't exist. If you check tapes aimed to language learners of your native language, you'll understand what I am talking about. I think If you want to become a native-like speaker , it's best to train your brain just DOING it, FEELING it and keep it REAL from the beginning.
What building blocks? Maybe biological blocks, because babies doesn’t know anything about language courses, language methods, language or anything . They are exposed to the REAL language, massively , from the beginning and without any assessment about the percentage of comprehensible input. Three or four years later they are talking like parrots and they are told to shut up. Babies are absolutely ignorant. They don't know about language courses, techniques, methods or comprehensible input. They only are there and interact with native speakers.
I completely disagree. People don't use real native resources because they are good with the language. They are good with the language because they use REAL, NATIVE resources from the beginning. All different methods, commercial methods and personal methods (including listening-reading system) are a huge smoke screen. My humble opinion, but I am more an more convinced that it's a fact. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6347 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 34 of 430 23 April 2008 at 11:14am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Siomotteikiru, If you weren't so openly manipulative and condescending, people would probably never figure out it was you, and you might actually enjoy functioning as a normal member here. You could even defend L-R, and be much more influencial as a non-troll. Think about it - how much credence do you give to a zealot? How much to a troll? This is the same argument I use with my friends who are to the extreme right or left politically. As long as they are screaming out their beliefs, mocking and belittling their opponents, they will not be able to influence anybody. Of course, they ignore me. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6472 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 35 of 430 23 April 2008 at 11:17am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
I agree with Pentatonic and with you. The error is not using native and real resources from the beginning. Nevertheless, in the long run, TIME and dedication are the real and underlying factors. Nothing more, nothing less. Whatever else, I think is smokescreen. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| TheElvenLord Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5877 days ago 915 posts - 927 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Cornish, English* Studies: Spanish, French, German Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 36 of 430 23 April 2008 at 11:24am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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StaltusS
It is the same with many Chinese characters, there is a long story behind them (Such as the symbol for Moon ACTUALLY started out as a moon), i think its best to ignore them. Read them, they are certainly interesting, and it may help it stick in your brain (For me it does), but concentrate on the Character - Meaning + Sound. So, when you see a Japanese character, you know its meaning, and can recall the evolution if you want, it doesnt have to be memorized. TEL 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| TheElvenLord Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5877 days ago 915 posts - 927 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Cornish, English* Studies: Spanish, French, German Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 38 of 430 23 April 2008 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Thats quite alright
I dont have any experience with Japanese Characters, or Japanese larning. So i cannot help you with detailed learning, but i have learnt Chinese characters, so i can help you in some respects. What i would do is learn the equivalent of Pinyin first off, so you are associating the sound, and im not sure how the typing works, but if its similar to chinese, you need the pinyin - if you have induvidual lessons with a vocabulary section, learn the sounds. Then, learn the associated symbol. I put these on a flashcard with Pinyin and English on one side, and Character on the other. If theres anything else i can help with, i will be happy to, but remember that i am not as experienced as some people on this forum - i am only sharing what advice i can give. TEL 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Leopejo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 5906 days ago 675 posts - 724 votes Speaks: Italian*, Finnish*, English Studies: French, Russian | Message 39 of 430 23 April 2008 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
We absolutely disagree here. Behind most methods there is someone with a passion for languages and teaching them. Sure, this globalization, where tens of languages are teached with the exact same method and even the same photos (see Rosetta Stone) is not as nice. But for another example, even the despised Dr. Pimsleur started as a researcher, not marketer. Do you read a book in your target language? The goal of the publisher is to sell those books. Do you listen to radio in your native language? The goal of the radio station is to have many listeners and sell much advertising time.
Maybe you get the "false sense of achievement". I know exactly what I get and how. About "real", I know: I have helped make those tapes. Let me tell you this: they are real. Do you never speak slower? Do you never care what words you use? Every word you hear in a movie or a TV series is artificial, it is recited. So what?
You are welcome to do that. In my opinion (and we disagree here, I know) doing that alone is not the fastest way. As I said in another topic today, the best way to become a Real Madrid or Barcelona player is not to play football all the time. No, you will exercise your technique, speed, endurance, tactics with a different, specific training - alongside real or training games.
Sure. If you want to spend three, four years hiring two "parents" and some "friends" to talk their language with you, and you parrot them, you are welcome. There are better ways out there (again, in my opinion). Anyway, do you agree that those 3-4 years are very important for those children? Exactly the same, the first 1500 words you learn are more important than the next 18500. So, saying that these courses only teach a tiny amount of a language is nonsense to me.
You are welcome to your opinion. It's good that people have differing opinions. For me, they are not smokescreens. They are instruments which you can use or not. My opinion is that most of them are useful instruments, one more useful, one less. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6740 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 40 of 430 23 April 2008 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
OK, but do you care about how long it will take you to get to the stage that can be qualified as "the long run"? For that will depend on how you go about it.
Does it mean that someone who uses simplified readers before moving on to reading unabridged literature will end up with a poorer knowledge of the language than someone who starts out directly with unabridged sources? Edited by frenkeld on 23 April 2008 at 1:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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