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Best Method or More Time ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Leopejo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6110 days ago 675 posts - 724 votes  Speaks: Italian*, Finnish*, English Studies: French, Russian | Message 89 of 430 26 April 2008 at 9:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Those who are answering to you are not only providing you with their "feelings", but with objective results. They are saying to you that in X amount of time they learned much more with their method than while watching DVDs. In every human endeavour time is important, but being able to optimize it is as important. After all, your amount of time is limited.
People are influenced on the forums, sure, but again many of these people have years of experience trying different methods and seeing different results. Learning a language watching DVDs is hardly a new method, and I guess everybody has tried something similar at one time or another. They haven't found it good enough as their only learning method. "Street" (?) people may fall prey to captivating advertising, but we are hardly talking about those who participate in these forums, people who, by just reading the forums, show interest in learning about language learning and methods behind the marketing hype.
I'm pretty confident that he wasn't comparing Assimil to a "learn only by real native language" method. And the fact that there is one voice against a method doesn't mean the method isn't good. People having different preferences is not the same as "all methods are equal", that's a nichilistic error in logic.
You are definitely right. Still it is a method many find better and more time efficient than watching DVDs. And some also (but this is a different issue!) find it more fun and spend more time with it than with other methods. Take also into account that learning from your coworkers, as those immigrants into Spain did, is a completely different task than learning a language watchind DVDs at home, from every point of view. If I had to choose between one of those methods you despise, and living and completely immersing myself into the life and language of a foreign country, maybe I'd choose the latter (but still trying to have a foundation first). But that is not an option that I would/could seriously consider in this moment of my life. Still, I find it hard to believe that some new prof. Arquelles would maximize his multiple languages learning by only building houses in different parts of the world, as amusing as the image is (which doesn't mean that living in your target country isn't an important step regardless of previous methods). Edited by Leopejo on 26 April 2008 at 9:04am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6440 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 90 of 430 26 April 2008 at 9:47am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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This is my last post in this thread, as I get the impression everything I am saying is being ignored in favor of dismissing me as a being 'STUCK as a best method zealot' because I do not find all methods equal, and my comments about one thing working better than another for some people in some contexts are being misconstrued as claiming that that is the best method. I am happy to engage in serious discourse; I am not happy to engage in a shouting match at cross-purposes.
That I learn more with some methods than others is not pure subjectivity. If I spend the same amount of time with method X doing language Q, and with method Y for language R, and afterwards can speak, read, write, and understand spoken language Q, but not R, and both are of similar difficulty levels for native English speakers with my linguistic background, I will unreservedly say that X is better for me, and that this is not subjective. If I focus on listening through internet radio, but still can't understand more than absolute basics after hundreds of hours, it is a far cry from techniques I've used to gain more understanding in a few dozen. Given that I have done both, and the latter for harder languages to get a base in... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6676 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 91 of 430 26 April 2008 at 9:53am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
As I said before to Volte, I am suprised with your responses. You are stuck with this "best method" approach and.... most of the experts in this forum as well. My affirmation is only about : INPUT (whatever the level) +OUTPUT+ tons of TIME, and not about best methods. This doesn't exist. Sorry. Is it so difficult to grasp my idea? Maybe its simplicity makes it difficult. Listen: Moroccan immigran method or DVD movie methods are TWO possible approaches, neither better or worst than the endless combinations you can find in this forums. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| tricoteuse Pentaglot Senior Member Norway littlang.blogspot.co Joined 6679 days ago 745 posts - 845 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Norwegian, EnglishC1, Russian, French Studies: Ukrainian, Bulgarian | Message 92 of 430 26 April 2008 at 10:05am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Sorry if this has already been replied to, but what about the people who don't have those massive amounts of time you seem to have? And who need/want to learn in a short period of time? You study one language, so you can dedicate all your free time to that if you want. Some people here study 5 languages, I think their situation is therefore a bit different. Then do you still not believe in more or less effective methods? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6676 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 93 of 430 26 April 2008 at 10:09am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I am not dismissing anybody. I have written you are 'stuck' with the "best method thinking" because you are insinuating that I am defending "Moroccan immigrant method" as the "best method". Same with Leospejo. He is insinuating that I am defending "DVD movie method" as the best method. They are as good methods as other combinations. It's In fact, my core method is SRS (40.000 sentences method). I agree with you that your methods are the best for you. Nevertheless, you and others often change to the absolutely best method thinking. It's a shame. Assessment about my or your levels of subjectivity or objectivity about our personal methods and regarding ourselves, is a very difficult task.Not easy to evaluate. Finally, it isn't important. Do whatever you feel like doing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Leopejo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6110 days ago 675 posts - 724 votes Speaks: Italian*, Finnish*, English Studies: French, Russian | Message 94 of 430 26 April 2008 at 10:10am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Maybe I'm not, but I know Volte to be a very sensible and intelligent person. She probably understands what you mean, and disagrees with it. My opinion: INPUT + OUTPUT + TIME are only necessary conditions. And that's it. We are not obsessed by "best methods", but we want to (in differing degrees) learn a language, learn it well in our time constraints, have fun learning it, regardless of why we are learning the language (interest? work? visit to a country?). METHODS ARE NOT EQUAL. Some methods are OBJECTIVELY better than others, at least for some/most people. Most methods are better than your DVDs. You could say that it goes into INPUT above. Then I say that I prefer a method which lets me have much more INPUT in that time than your inefficient methods. Ok? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Leopejo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6110 days ago 675 posts - 724 votes Speaks: Italian*, Finnish*, English Studies: French, Russian | Message 95 of 430 26 April 2008 at 10:16am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
That would be Leopejo. I am not insinuating that. I am saying that some methods are objectively better than others. And you are denying that. Ok?
And you definitely know what is moving in her head, right?
Which doesn't mean that nichilism and relativism is the right answer.
Here I agree with you. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6676 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 96 of 430 26 April 2008 at 10:19am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
No, I don't believe in this best method approach. They need an extremely good TIME management method. On the other hand, it's a huge fantasy to expect learning any language to a native or near native level in a "short period of time", whatever the method. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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