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Best Method or More Time ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6676 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 57 of 430 24 April 2008 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
You can use real material since the first day. At the beginning you can use subtitles in your own language, you can watch the movie one time and then one scene every day or whatever combination you like or feel like...
I would use real thing from the beginning. DVD with subtitles in my own language, without subtitles, listening real radio and audio books passively or actively, as it were music. As newspapers is concerned, I would begin as soon as possible. We need to know the real beast from the very beginning. It's better to avoid later surprises... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6944 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 58 of 430 24 April 2008 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
If everything that saves time is a "time management reason", then choosing Assimil versus Pimsleur is also about time management. That's the whole point, by properly choosing the approach, the materials, the tools, one can proceed faster or slower. Your belief in using unabridged materials from the very beginning seems to be more about personal preference than being able to demonstrate that it is a quicker approach than one that starts with a textbook and a graded reader. Otherwise, what makes you think that your approach would be the faster one with Mandarin? Edited by frenkeld on 24 April 2008 at 12:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Makrasiroutioun Quadrilingual Heptaglot Senior Member Canada infowars.com Joined 6107 days ago 210 posts - 236 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Armenian*, Romanian*, Latin, German, Italian Studies: Dutch, Swedish, Turkish, Japanese, Russian, Arabic (Written) | Message 59 of 430 24 April 2008 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I cringe when I hear people marketing their products as "BECOME FLUENT IN 3 MONTHS/8 weeks/ 7 days/ 3 days, etc." when most linguists' definition of real fluency is to be able to fully function in X society with X language in nearly every walk of life without any major difficulty.
Being able to repeat a couple of hundreds of pre-constructed phrases sounding almost native does NOT equal fluency. If someone gives you the task of writing (not translating) 2 pages on a particular subject within a 90-minute limit, and if you do it successfully with few mistakes, then I consider that you've reached written/writing fluency. If you can have a conversation harshly criticising the latest political scandal of X party, with full emotion and nuance, then I would consider that you have reached speaking fluency. That's my two cents on reaching fluency. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gilgamesh Tetraglot Senior Member England Joined 6243 days ago 452 posts - 468 votes 14 sounds Speaks: Dutch, English, German, French Studies: Polish | Message 60 of 430 24 April 2008 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Hear, hear. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6676 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 61 of 430 24 April 2008 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That's the only real reason. Maybe you don't need to choose between them.
Again, if you want to get native fluency, you will use native material most of the way. The tools are always the same: listening, reading and interacting with real materials. You will go faster if you work more time and with more intensity. Nothing more, nothing less. The tools are whatever you feel like doing WITH your target language, because you will feel more motivated and you will spend more time. This all issue is more psychological than linguistic.
Nothing. Start with native materials from the very beginning is another delusion. This approach is very good as long as I feel I am domesticating the beast from the beginning and that is a very good psychological effect for me. I use movies, sitcoms, radio and SRS, but those methods are delusions as well. Those are good methods as long as I feel good, I feel I am improving, I feel more motivation and I work harder and MORE TIME. Regarding the global way to native fluency, it's a fact that I will need tons of native , real materials. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6551 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 62 of 430 24 April 2008 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I tried this with reading Japanese. It was terribly inefficient for me. I've tried watching movies, with subtitles, in languages I don't understand very well. Also, terribly inefficient for me. I find using simplified language learning materials much more efficient in the beginning. I don't doubt that your method works well for you - different learning styles and all. But perhapse it doesn't work well for everyone. Will you not admit to that possibility, or do you insist that people don't learn differently? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| edwin Triglot Senior Member Canada towerofconfusi&Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6465 days ago 160 posts - 183 votes 9 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French, Spanish, Portuguese | Message 63 of 430 24 April 2008 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
To save time, the principle is simple. Stop doing whatever are counter-productive and start doing more things which are productive. But then many of us are not always aware of activities which are not productive, and would spend a lot of time doing it. One example, I am sorry to say, is to indulge in this forum. I have to confess that I myself also fall into this trap from time to time.
For input activities (listening and reading), surely we can do a lot of them in parallel with other daily activities. As for speaking, it is a bit difficult. But there still some activities you can do in parallel with other things, such as: 1) Talk to yourself. you can do this anywhere, or at least alone if you don't want to be mistaken as a psycho. I have heard many successful stories on this. I myself is trying, but I don't have a lot to talk about with myself. 2) Shadowing can be done while your are driving, jogging, or commuting (if you not shy). As for writing, I cannot think of anything that you can do in your 'hidden time'.
For this, I have to agree with slucido again. Use real-life authentic materials. I believe you can only find interesting content from real-life. There is no doubt about it. Then if you are a complete beginner, you may still need help from textbooks and audios. But I would depart from them as early as possible. I am sure you can get beginner's language resources very cheap or even free on the Internet. I never buy into those expensive commercial products. Edited by edwin on 24 April 2008 at 1:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7206 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 64 of 430 24 April 2008 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't know where fluency lies, but having a well considered, calm, insightful, compelling, frank, yet respectful discussion of a political situation requires a great deal of finess and equanimity. Going into a nuanced rant, although perhaps demonstrative of verbal acumen, is less challenging. I understand that one might take issue with the description I have just provided as an example of fluent behavior, as many native speakers, myself at times included, cannot pull it off. Perhaps a less demanding example of fluent behavior would be to verbally entice someone to make a new and difficult life changing decision that would benefit them, but requiring a radical change in outlook. Then again, this is a tough challenge. How about, just being able to explain ones actions and experiences in such a compelling way that one's listeners nod their heads in agreement (assuming that head nodding is a cultural reflection of understanding). Of course it would take time as well as a good handle on grammar to achieve that. Edited by luke on 24 April 2008 at 2:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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