Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Chung at work / Chung pri práci

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
541 messages over 68 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 54 ... 67 68 Next >>
Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 2503 days ago

4144 posts - 4799 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 425 of 541
02 January 2014 at 9:53pm | IP Logged 
@Chung: I particularly enjoy reading your log, it will be one of my not so guilty pleasures in 2014 :-)



prz_
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Poland
last.fm/user/prz_rul
Joined 2028 days ago

890 posts - 301 votes 
Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian
Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish

 
 Message 426 of 541
03 January 2014 at 12:44am | IP Logged 
Mooby wrote:
Thanks prz, the Dative is a minefield!

Nah, don't worry, I also have problems with cases/prepositions in every language I learn :D



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4325 days ago

4232 posts - 4064 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 427 of 541
13 January 2014 at 12:45am | IP Logged 
FINNISH

I finished working on Chapter 39 whose main point of new grammar focus is the translative case. This chapter also provides a review of the direct object, and the chapter’s remaining exercises focused on using the translative case, adverbs ending in –sin (e.g. lauantaisin “on Saturdays”), in addition to some comprehension questions of a recorded text.



(From B.Virtanen – hauskat kuvat - Naurunappula)

1) “You weren’t at home yesterday evening. – I was working overtime again.”
2) “Always on overtime! Work for you is more important than your own son! Do you somehow think that you can replace all of the lost shared moments with money?”
3) “It would be definitely worth trying at least.”

Convention for unfamiliar vocabulary in the comic strip (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

korvata (korvaan, korvasi, korvannut) “to replace”
menetetty (menetetyn, menetettyä, menetettyjä) “lost, missed” (passive past participle of menettää “to lose, miss”)
yhteinen (yhteisen, yhteistä, yhteisiä) “common, joint”

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular, partitive singular, partitive plural)
VERBS: 1st infinitive (1st person singular present tense, 3rd person singular past simple tense, active past participle)
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

POLISH

I’ve done some exercises on forming dimunutives and the use of powinien etc. “ought to” in Chapter 2 of “Kiedyś wrócisz tu... część 1: Gdzie nadwiślański brzeg”.



(From Komix #673 via Tori Komix)

1) “We’re going to Kraków! – I can’t wait!”
2) “Why? What’s interesting over there? – Apparently the largest dragon in Poland.”
3) “Not a dragon but smog. – That’s less important. What’s important is that it’s big and kills people.” [Ed. this is a rather free or idiomatic translation].

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (nominative plural, genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 2nd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

TURKISH

I’ve worked through Unit 15 of “Turkish Self-Study Course” and did the exercises in Chapter 4 of “Elementary Turkish” on pgs. 75-82. The main points in new grammar in the former were using the adverbs yakında “near” and uzakta “far”, numbers beyond 100, and the conjunction ile “and”. The exercises in the latter pertained to the genitive and possessive suffixes.


***

UKRAINIAN

I’ve finished the exercises on pgs. 118-123 in Chapter 7 of “Beginner’s Ukrainian”. These were mainly substitution or transformation drills covering the compound form of the imperfective future, use of думати “to think” with an infinitive to signal intention, the formation of adverbs from adjectives, and giving temperature readings.



(From Моï очі via Огірок – переклади коміксів українською)

1) “This is my son!”
2) “He has my eyes!”
4) “Without them I don’t see anything.”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

MISCELLANEOUS

N/A
______


1 person has voted this message useful



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4325 days ago

4232 posts - 4064 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 428 of 541
13 January 2014 at 12:45am | IP Logged 
SLOVAK

As noted here, I’m compiling a list of verbs that use prefixes in derivation or to indicate changes in aspect.



(From Shooty 16. 12. 2013.)

“Budgetary responsibility is not accepted even by the Minister of Finance!”

- rozpočtov|-ý|-á|-é (rozpočtov|-ého|-ej|-ého) “budgetary”
- uznávať > uznať (uznáva, uznávajú > uzná, uznajú) “to accept, admit”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (3rd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

---

See here for the rationale for and information about this exercise in comparing Czech and Slovak.

The Czech sentences are red while the Slovak ones are blue. (…) denotes text that has been omitted because its subject matter does not tie back to the common translation thus making it ineligible for grammatical or lexical comparison.

Unit 4

Dialog 6 / Dialóg 6

F: Dobrý den, paní Čermáková. Jak se máte?

D: Dobrý deň, pani Bottová. Ako sa máte?

“Hello, Mrs. Čermáková / Botto. How are you?”

Č: Dobře. Kam jedete?

B: Dobre. Kam idete?

“Well. Where are you going?”

Differences above have been analyzed previously (see here).

F: Jedu do města. Právě čekám na tramvaj. No a odpoledne jedu k tetě do Ostravy. Teta má dceru, která studuje angličtinu. Právě píše diplomovou práci a potřebuje pomoc. (…) nerada píše, ale teď (…) musí.

D: Idem do mesta. Práve čakám na električku. A poobede idem k tete do Trenčína. Ona má dcéru, ktorá študuje angličtinu. Práve píše diplomovú prácu a potrebuje pomoc. Nerada píše, ale teraz musí.

“I’m going to the city. I’m just waiting for the streetcar. And in the afternoon I’m going to my aunt’s place in Ostrava / Trenčín. My aunt has a daughter who is studying English. She’s just writing her thesis and needs help. She doesn’t like writing but now she has to.”

Difference between Czech and Slovak in verbs of motion has been analyzed previously (see here)

Differences between Právě čekám na... and Práve čakám na… have been analyzed here (for právě / práve) and here (for čekám / čakám).

Cz: tramvaj | Sk: električka “streetcar”

In the modern languages, each word is codified for its own language. The dictionary of written Czech marks električka as a Slovakicism, while the edition from 1959-68 of the descriptive dictionary of Slovak marks tramvaj as a slightly old-fashioned term for električka. I’ve also heard Slovaks use električka to describe the electrically-powered train that runs in the High Tatras; between the 1960s and 2000 modified streetcars were used, but since then electrical articulated trains resembling commuter trains in other countries ply the route.

Cz: odpoledne | Sk: poobede “afternoon”

Each word is codified for its own language - uncontroversial difference.

Cz: dcera | Sk: dcéra “daughter”

Each word is codified for its own language. Different orthography reflects different pronunciation, subtle as this is (i.e. e in Czech cognate is short whereas it’s long in Slovak cognate).

Cz: která | Sk: ktorá “that, who” (relative pronoun)

Each word is codified for its own language. Different orthography reflects different pronunciation, subtle as this is.

Other differences have been analyzed previously. Of note, see here for difference in Czech and Slovak between declining feminine adjectives on the example of jakou / akú.

Č: A co děláte teď vy? Pracujete nebo (…) studujete?

B: A vy, čo teraz robíte? Pracujete alebo študujete?

“And what are you doing now? Do you work or do you study?”

F: Jsem student. Studuju angličtinu a němčinu.

D: Som študent. Študujem angličtinu a nemčinu.

“I’m a student. I’m studying English and German.”

Cz: němčina | Sk: nemčina “German” (language)

Each word is codified for its own language, but pronunciation is practically identical (or at least to my ears). Compare Czech němčina with Slovak nemčina. See here for comparison of těší versus teší. Other differences have been analyzed previously.

Č: Bydlíte tu někde blízko?

B: Bývate tu niekde blízko?

“Do you live somewhere near here?”

Differences above have been analyzed previously. Někde and niekde differ in similarly to něco and niečo. See here.

F: Ne, teď máme nový byt. Je dost daleko, v Jižním Městě. Starý je hned za rohem. Moje sestra tam stále ještě bydlí. A vy, kde pracujete?

D: Nie, teraz máme nový byt. Starý je hneď za rohom. Moja sestra tam ešte stále býva. Nový byt je dosť ďaleko, za Dunajom, v Petržalke. A vy, čo robíte?


CZ: “No, we now have a new apartment. It’s quite far, in Jižní Město. The old one is just around the corner. My sister still lives there. And you? Where do you work?”
SK: “No, we now have a new apartment. The old one is just around the corner. My sister still lives there. The new apartment is quite far, past the Danube, in Petržalka. And you? What do you do?”

For some reason, James Naughton has given different sequences of the sentences even though the content is the same excepting geographical considerations.

Cz: dost | Sk: dosť “quite”

Cz: hned | Sk: hneď “about, just, right”

Each word is codified for its own language. Different orthography reflects different pronunciation, subtle as this is. The final consonant in each of the Slovak cognates is palatalized unlike in the Czech ones.

Cz: za rohem | Sk: za rohom “around the corner”

This is another example of a declensional difference between Czech and Slovak. The instrumental singular ending is –em for Czech masculine nouns but –om in Slovak ones.

Cz: ještě | Sk: ešte “even, still”

Each word is codified for its own language. Different orthography reflects different pronunciation, subtle as this is. See here for more comments.

Other differences in the sentences have been analyzed previously.

Č: Jsem prodavačka. Prodávám v samoobsluze. Právě teď tam jedu. Čekám na autobus.

B: Som predavačka. Predávam v samoobsluhe. (…) Práve teraz tam idem. Čakám na autobus... (…)

“I’m a salesclerk. I work in a supermarket. I’m just going there now. I’m waiting for the bus.”

Cz: prodavačka | Sk: predavačka “female sales clerk, saleswoman”

(cf. Cz: prodavač | Sk: predavač “male sales clerk, salesman”)

This is an example of the strong tendency for the Czech prefix pro- to map to Slovak pre-.

Other examples of this tendency include:

“address, speech”, “because”, “to sell”, “stroll”,
Cz: projev, protože, prodat, procházka
Sk: prejav, pretože, predať, prechádzka

Incidentally, the Czech prefix pře- is cognate with the Slovak pre-. In other words, a Slovak word with the prefix pre- can map to a Czech equivalent/cognate that begins either with pro- as shown above or pře-.

E.g.

“to read” (perfective), “crossing”, “exact”, “to translate”
Cz: přečíst, přechod, přesný, překládat
Sk: prečítať, prechod, presný, prekladať

Other differences have been covered previously. For discussion on the rhythmic law as exemplified here by prodávám versus predávam, and how it distinguishes Slovak from Czech, see here which uses the example of Bílé nebo červené víno? versus Biele alebo červené víno?.

Cz: v samoobsluze | Sk: v samoobsluhe “in a/the supermarket”

This is another example of a difference between Czech and Slovak in declining feminine nouns whose stems end in a velar (i.e. –h, –ch, –k) in dative and locative singular. See here for more discussion on the example of k Zuzce and k Zuzke.

Edited by Chung on 15 January 2014 at 2:30pm

5 persons have voted this message useful



prz_
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Poland
last.fm/user/prz_rul
Joined 2028 days ago

890 posts - 301 votes 
Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian
Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish

 
 Message 429 of 541
13 January 2014 at 12:51am | IP Logged 
Wow, Chung, amazing!
1 person has voted this message useful



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4325 days ago

4232 posts - 4064 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 430 of 541
19 January 2014 at 7:13pm | IP Logged 
FINNISH

I’ve started Chapter 40 of “Finnish for Foreigners I” whose main points of new grammar are reflexive constructions with the plural possessives of toinen “second, other” and pluperfect. This chapter also provides a review of the possessive suffixes for plural nouns. In addition to the assigned oral drills, I did the numerous fill-in-th-blank and transformation drills with possessive suffixes for plurals. These were much tougher than I thought.



(From Oswald - Sarjakuva)

1) “I am in a really bad mood today.”
2) “That means that it’s not worth bugging me. Was that clear?”
3) “Was that clear?!”
4) “They too were probably in a bad mood.”

Convention for unfamiliar vocabulary in the comic strip (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular, partitive singular, partitive plural)
VERBS: 1st infinitive (1st person singular present tense, 3rd person singular past simple tense, active past participle)
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

POLISH

I finished the last set of exercises in Chapter 2 of “Kiedyś wrócisz tu... część 1: Gdzie nadwiślański brzeg” which focused on forming the imperative. Review never hurts.



(From Real Life via Smiech.net)

1) “Jeeze, Greg! Where did you burn yourself like that?”
2) “I fell asleep on the deckchair. – Buddy… That’s gotta hurt.”
3) “It burns like hell. I’m going to lie down on the couch. – I hope that you’ll feel better.”
4) “Aaah!!! The couch is on fire!!”

- leżak (leżaki, leżaka) “deckchair”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (nominative plural, genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 2nd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

TURKISH

I’ve worked through Unit 16 of “Turkish Self-Study Course”. The main points in new grammar were using adverbs of quantity and terms for nationality and language.

***

UKRAINIAN

I’ve finished the exercises on pgs. 215-7 in Chapter 12 of “Modern Ukrainian”. These were mainly substitution or transformation drills on using the dative singular for nouns. I also did a time-consuming exercise on p. 123 of “Beginner’s Ukrainian” which let me practice how to ask for names of objects. Of special interest to me was how it differs from the techniques in Polish.

When asking for an animate noun’s name, I’ve learned the following among others:

Pl: Jak masz na imię? “What’s your (given) name?” (informal singular)
Uk: Як твоє ім’я? “What’s your (given) name?” (informal singular)

Pl: Jak masz na nazwisko? “What’s your family name?” (informal singular)
Uk: Як твоє прізвище? “What’s your family name?” (informal singular)

Pl: Jak się nazywasz? “What’s your (full) name?” (informal singular – i.e. “How do you call yourself?”)
Uk: Як тебе звуть? “What’s your (full) name?” (informal singular – i.e. “How do they call you?”)

When asking for an inanimate noun’s name, I’ve learned the following among others:

Pl: Jak się nazywa ta piosenka? “What’s that song called?” (i.e. “How does that song call itself?”)
Uk: Як називається та пісня? “What’s that song called?” (i.e. “How does that song call itself?”)

As far as I know, nazywać się “to be named, called” can refer to inanimate and animate nouns. The Ukrainian cognate називатися “to be named, called” refers to just inanimate nouns per the notes in “Beginner’s Ukrainian”. One uses звати “to call” when referring to the name of an animate noun with the latter in accusative.

On a related note, “Beginner’s Ukrainian” indicates that ім’я refers to an animate being’s (first) name, but назва refers to an inanimate object’s name or title. In Polish, the distinction seems slightly less strict, (e.g. Dawno Katowice nosiły imię Stalinogród. “Long ago [the city of] Katowice bore the name ‘Stalinogród’”) but I do note a tendency for imię to refer to a personal name, whereas nazwa is the name or title of something inanimate.



(From Вбивця via Огірок – переклади коміксів українською)

“It seems that I’ve figured out who is a serial killer.”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

______



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4325 days ago

4232 posts - 4064 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 431 of 541
19 January 2014 at 7:44pm | IP Logged 
SLOVAK

As noted here, I’m compiling a list of verbs that use prefixes in derivation or to indicate changes in aspect.



(From S S H O O T Y – ...som Grogy)

2) “Awful winter.”
3) “Warmth, I want warmth.”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (3rd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

---

See here for the rationale for and information about this exercise in comparing Czech and Slovak.

The Czech sentences are red while the Slovak ones are blue. (…) denotes text that has been omitted because its subject matter does not tie back to the common translation thus making it ineligible for grammatical or lexical comparison.

Unit 7

Dialog 1 / Dialóg 1

E: Jirko, co jíš k snídani?

E: Juraj, čo jedávaš na raňajky?

Jirka / Juraj. What do you eat for breakfast?”

Cz: Jirka (< Jiří) | Sk: Juraj “George”

This reflects the aforementioned change in vowels in the Middle Ages that happened as Old Czech became Middle Czech. The older a and u as still seen Slovak “narrowed” to i or í (Cf. Czech vidím ulici / náměstí, Slovak vidím ulicu / námestie “I see the street / square”)

Cz: jíst | Sk: jedávať “to eat”

The difference between these verbs is in the frequency of the action. Jíst and jesť mean “to eat” and are usually refer to eating at a given moment. Jídat and jedávať also mean “to eat” but emphasize the action as a habit or part of a routine.

However this subtle distinction aside, it’s grammatical to use Jirko, co jíš k snídani? / Juraj, čo ješ na raňajky? even when asking about eating breakfast as a routine. Most native speakers would understand what is meant and not often perceive that using the non-frequentative form of the verb as ill-suited to asking about an action as a routine. To minimize the divergence between the sentences, it would be equally grammatical here to use Jirko, co jíš k snídani? / Juraj, čo ješ na raňajky? or Jirko, co jídáš k snídani? / Juraj, čo jedávaš na raňajky?. However, it would be impossible to make them identical.

Cz: k snídani | Sk: na raňajky “for breakfast”

As far as I know each phrase is codified for its own language. Czech uses the preposition k “to(ward), for” which governs the dative while Slovak uses the preposition na “to, for” which governs the accusative in these meanings. Incidentally, the Slovak usage is reminiscent of Polish which also uses na in this phrase.

“What do you want for breakfast?”
Cz: Co chceš k snídani?
Sk: Čo chceš na raňajky?
Pl: Co chcesz na śnidanie?

The Polish question sounds somewhat like a mix of Czech and Slovak.

Cz: snídaně | Sk: raňajky “breakfast”

Each word is codified for its own language – uncontroversial difference.

J: K snídani jím chleba se salámem nebo se sýrem. (...) A ty?

J: Na raňajky jem chlieb so salámou alebo so syrom. A ty?

“For breakfast I have bread with salami or cheese. And you?”

Cz: jím chleba | Sk: jem chlieb “I eat bread”

The difference is not as stark as it may seem. The Czech phrase can be translated as “I eat [some] bread” with the genitive singular of chléb reflecting a partitive sense, in addition to “I eat bread” with chleba being Colloquial Czech’s counterpart to standard chléb in nominative and accusative singular. It would have been grammatical to have used jím chléb, in which case it would have been identifiably Standard Czech and also resembled more the Slovak jem chlieb.

Cz: se | Sk: so “with”

See here for discussion on Czech and Slovak prepositions’ different euphonic vowels using the example of ode versus odo.

Cz: salám | Sk: saláma “salami”

Each word is codified for its own language, subtle as this difference is. Namely the Czech word ending in a consonant makes it a typical masculine noun whereas the Slovak word ending in –a makes it a typical feminine noun.

Cz: nebo | Sk: alebo “or”

See here for discussion on difference between (a)nebo and alebo.

Cz: sýr | Sk: syr “cheese”

Each word is codified for its own language subtle as this difference is. Namely the Czech word has a long vowel whereas the Slovak word has a short vowel.

E: Buď nesnídám vůbec, nebo si dám jen rohlík s máslem a s džemem. A k obědu?

E: Buď neraňajkujem vôbec, alebo si dám len rožok s maslom a s džemom. A na obed?

“Either I don’t have breakfast at all or I’ll have just a roll with cheese or jam. And for lunch?”

Cz: snídati | Sk: raňajkovať “to eat breakfast”

Compare snídaně and raňajky “breakfast” mentioned previously.

Cz: vůbec | Sk: vôbec “at all”

Each word is codified for its own language subtle as this difference is. Namely the Czech ů is a long u whereas the Slovak ô is the diphthong uo. When comparing the roots or stems of Czech and Slovak words, Czech ů corresponds to Slovak ô (but not necessarily vice-versa).

E.g.

“important” (nominative singular, masculine), “horse” (nominative singular), “my” (nominative singular, masculine), “table” (nominative singular)
Cz: důležitý, kůň, můj, stůl
Sk: dôležitý, kôň, môj, stôl

Cz: rohlík | Sk: rožok “(bread) roll”

Each word is codified for its own language – uncontroversial difference. There is also a near-false friend in Slovak with Czech rohlík. According to the historical dictionary of Slovak rohlik (note short i, rather than long i in Czech rohlík) refers to a common swift (i.e. the bird).

Cz: máslo | Sk: maslo “butter”

Each word is codified for its own language subtle as this difference is. Namely the Czech á is long a whereas the Slovak a is short a.

Cz: A k obědu? | Sk: A na obed? “And for lunch?”

Compare k snídani and na raňajky “for breakfast” mentioned previously.

J: Během týdne obědvám v menze.

J: Cez týždeň obedujem v menze.

“During the week I have lunch in the cafeteria.”

Cz: během | Sk: cez “during, over the course of”

Each word is codified for its own language – uncontroversial difference. However the Descriptive Dictionary of Slovak notes that the cognate behom is an incorrect substitute (Czechism?) for cez in this use, in addition to the grammatical use of behom as an adverb meaning “quickly”.

Cz: týden | Sk: týždeň “week”

Each word is codified for its own language despite the clear similarlity.

Cz: obědvat | Sk: obedovať “to eat lunch”

Each word is codified for its own language despite the clear similarlity. The difference is that each language has used a different derivational suffix to turn the noun to a verb, which in turn leads to different conjugational patterns. However, the Czech analogue of Slovak obedovať in obědovati is noted in the descriptive dictionary of standard Czech as an archaic and dialectal variant of obědvat

Edited by Chung on 19 January 2014 at 7:57pm



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 4325 days ago

4232 posts - 4064 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 432 of 541
09 February 2014 at 9:22pm | IP Logged 
FINNISH

I’ve continued to work through Chapter 40 of “Finnish for Foreigners I” whose main points of new grammar are reflexive constructions with the plural possessives of toinen “second, other” and pluperfect. This chapter also provides a review of the possessive suffixes for plural nouns. In addition to redoing the assigned oral drills, I did several fill-in-the-blank and transformation drills for using toinen “second, other” in its meaning of “each other” when its plural stem bears possessive suffixes.



(From Viivi & Wagner – Plaza 13.1.2014)

1) “What is Viivi boiling? It just doesn’t smell good.”
2) “Maybe the taste is better… Eeewww!”
3) “I’m boiling your socks. The smell of sweat won’t go out otherwise.”

haju (hajun, hajua, hajuja) “smell, stench”
hiki (hien, hikeä, hikiä) “sweat”

Convention for unfamiliar vocabulary in the comic strip (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular, partitive singular, partitive plural)
VERBS: 1st infinitive (1st person singular present tense, 3rd person singular past simple tense, active past participle)
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

POLISH

I finished the first set of exercises in Chapter 3 of “Kiedyś wrócisz tu... część 1: Gdzie nadwiślański brzeg” which focused on compliments (e.g. Wyglądasz szałowo w tej spódnicy! - Naprawdę? Dziękuję! “You look great in that skirt! - Really? Thank you!”)



(From Hagar Horrendalny – Joe Monster)

1) “Helga said that she’s sick of me reeking of beer. – Do you plan to give up drinking?”
2) “No… I’ll have a breath mint on the way home.”

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (nominative plural, genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 2nd person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

TURKISH

I worked through Unit 17 of “Turkish Self-Study Course” and the exercises on pgs. 83-90 for Unit 4 in “Elementary Turkish” thus completing that unit. The main points in the former for new grammar were using the genitive suffix -(n)in etc. to mark the possessor and the 3rd person posessive suffix -(s)i etc. to mark the possessee, whereas the latter had exercises getting me familiar with terms for colours, the particle da / de “also” and the infinitive suffix -mak/-mek.

As I was doing the exercises with the possessive suffixes, I couldn’t help but recall the ways in which possession is marked in those agglutinative languages that still regularly use possessive suffixes.

E.g.

Our street…” (emphasized form)

Finnish: Meidän katumme (possessor is emphasized by using meidän (i.e. genitive of me “we”); possessor is also revealed by possessed object bearing the suffix -mme)
Meadow Mari: Мемнан уремна (possessor is emphasized by using мемнан (i.e. genitive of мe “we”); possessor is also revealed by possessed object bearing the suffix -на)
Hungarian: A mi utcánk (possessor is emphasized by using mi “we”; possessor is also revealed by possessed object bearing the suffix -nk which regularly lengthens possessed noun’s final -a or -e)
Turkish: Bizim sokağımız (possessor is emphasized by using bizim (i.e. genitive of biz “we”); possessor is also revealed by possessed object bearing the suffix -ımız which often forces changes possessed noun’s final -k to when that noun consists of at least two syllables)

“Our street…” (unemphasized form)

Fi: Katumme (possessor is revealed by possessed object bearing suffix -mme)
MM: Уремна (possessor is revealed by possessed object bearing suffix -на)
Hu: Az utcánk (possessor is revealed by possessed object bearing suffix -nk which regularly lengthens possessed noun’s final -a or -e)
Tk: Sokağımız (possessor is revealed by possessed object bearing suffix -ımız which often forces changes possessed noun’s final -k to when that noun consists of at least two syllables)

In colloquial Finnish and Turkish, it is permissible for the possessive suffix to be omitted so long as the possessor is already marked by the possessor in the genitive.

Coll. Fi: Meidän katu… (possessor is revealed by meidän (i.e. genitive of me “we”))
Tk: Bizim sokak… (possessor is revealed by bizim (i.e. genitive of biz “we”))

Comparing the sequence of these infixes / suffixes for these four languages was interesting to me.

“There are many cars on оur street.”

Fi: Kadullamme on monta autoa. (katu ~ kadu- + -lla + -mme i.e. possessed noun + case suffix + possessive suffix)
MM: Уремыштына шуко машина уло. (урем + -ыште ~ -ышты- + на i.e. possessed noun + case suffix + possessive suffix)
Hu: Az utcánkban sok kocsi van.) (utca ~ utcá- + -nk + -ban i.e. possessed noun + possessive suffix + case suffix)
Tk: Sokağımızda çok araba var. (sokak ~ sokağ- + -ımız + -da i.e. possessed noun + possessive suffix + case suffix)

Note how the suffixes are in the same order for Finnish and Meadow Mari on one hand, and in the same order for Hungarian and Turkish on the other.

“There are many cars on оur streets.”

Fi: Kaduillamme on monta autoa. (katu ~ kadu- + -i- + -lla + -mme i.e. possessed noun + plural infix + case suffix + possessive suffix)
MM: Урем-влакыштына шуко машина уло. (урем + -влак + -ыште ~ -ышты- + на i.e. possessed noun + plural suffix + case suffix + possessive suffix) OR Уремна-влакыштe шуко машина уло. (урем + на + -влак + -ыште i.e. possessed noun + possessive suffix + plural suffix + case suffix)
Hu: Az utcáinkban sok kocsi van.) (utca ~ utcá- + -i- + -nk + -ban i.e. possessed noun + plural infix + possessive suffix + case suffix)
Tk: Sokaklarımızda çok araba var. (sokak + -lar + -ımız + -da i.e. possessed noun + plural suffix + possessive suffix + case suffix)

Note the identity of the plural infixes of Finnish and Hungarian which along with evidence from other Uralic languages gives rise to the hypothesis that Proto-Uralic used *-j- as a plurality marker when it was not in final position, and the flexibility in the suffixes’ sequence in Meadow Mari. Finnish regularly places the possessive suffix after the case suffix while Hungarian and Turkish have it the other way around. The sequence in Meadow Mari gives a hint to the greater diversity in this aspect than in the other languages. In fact the sequence can also depend on the case used.

E.g.

ола “city” (nominative singular)
оланаоur city” (nominative singular) [noun + possessive suffix]
олананof оur city” (genitive singular) [noun + possessive suffix + case suffix]

олаштеin the city” (inessive singular) [noun + case suffix]
олаштынаin оur city” (inessive singular) [noun + case suffix + possessive suffix]

ола-влак “cities” (nominative plural)
олана-влак / ола-влакнаоur cities” (nominative plural) [noun + possessive suffix + plural suffix OR noun + plural suffix + possessive suffix]

ола-влакыштеin the cities” (inessive plural) [noun + plural suffix + case suffix]
олана-влакыште / ола-влакыштынаin оur cities” (inessive plural) [noun + possessive suffix + plural suffix + case suffix OR noun + plural suffix + case suffix + possessive suffix]

***

UKRAINIAN

I’ve finished the exercises on p. 124-6 of “Beginner’s Ukrainian” thus finishing Chapter 7 of the textbook. The exercises were transformation drills involving movie titles and comprehension questions of texts in the chapter.



(From Електронна сигарета via Огірок – переклади коміксів українською)

1) “Excuse me but smoking is forbidden here.”
2) “Ah, but this is an electronic cigarette!”
3) *cough, cough*

Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary)

NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular)
VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb])
ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given

***

MISCELLANEOUS

As expected, being this busy in the rest of life has affected my studies and the frequency of updating the log.
______



Edited by Chung on 10 February 2014 at 4:35pm




This discussion contains 541 messages over 68 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.4219 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2017 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.