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Listening-Reading system

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply
489 messages over 62 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 26 ... 61 62 Next >>
tpiz
Diglot
Groupie
United States
cvillepayne.blogspot
Joined 4414 days ago

77 posts - 79 votes 
Studies: Portuguese, English*, French
Studies: Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 201 of 489
27 July 2007 at 9:38am | IP Logged 
To siomotteikiru

If censorship is rampant in the U.S., I don't want to imagine censorship in other countries. I tend to think that the U.S. has VERY loose censorship rules, maybe too loose(especially on TV), so please don't make that assumption off of an audiobook. And to fredomirek, I'm wondering the same thing as you, but to throw in my 2 cents, I have just been going to portuguese sites or looking in books and trying to just memorize the grammar rules and conjugations while I am listening to audiobooks since, if you know alot of french and Spanish, it will be extremely easy to pick up Portuguese. You speak Italian and Spanish so it would be a pretty transition to Portuguese,
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siomotteikiru
Senior Member
Zaire
Joined 4411 days ago

102 posts - 240 votes 

 
 Message 202 of 489
27 July 2007 at 9:59am | IP Logged 
to tpiz
http://www.ncac.org/action_issues/Books.cfm
1 person has voted this message useful



tpiz
Diglot
Groupie
United States
cvillepayne.blogspot
Joined 4414 days ago

77 posts - 79 votes 
Studies: Portuguese, English*, French
Studies: Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 203 of 489
27 July 2007 at 10:15am | IP Logged 
siomotteikiru wrote:
to tpiz
http://www.ncac.org/action_issues/Books.cfm


I don't see how that defends your point. There is censorship, but like I said, it is not very strict, but you obviously are willing to continue an argument for pages so I'll just be adult about it and just end it here.
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siomotteikiru
Senior Member
Zaire
Joined 4411 days ago

102 posts - 240 votes 

 
 Message 204 of 489
27 July 2007 at 10:23am | IP Logged 
to tpiz
You're right. How about another argument?


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PuYi
Bilingual Tetraglot
Newbie
Australia
Joined 4839 days ago

13 posts - 15 votes
Speaks: English, Mandarin*, Cantonese*, Korean

 
 Message 205 of 489
27 July 2007 at 10:24am | IP Logged 
siomotteikiru wrote:
PRONUNCIATION


Do I think that Zhuangzi's Russian is a disaster? I do. Why do teachers say pronunciation is not (so) important?
1. Their own pronunciation sucks.
2. They have no idea how to teach it.
3. They are lazy, they do not care.



Siomotteikiru,

I repect you for your knowledge and I cannot thank you enough for sharing this precious knowledge.

As a native speaker of both Mandarin and Chinese, Zhuangzi's pronounciation in both are close to perfect at 99%. I'm sure his Russian will one day be at that level if not more, just not at the speed that you demand. You've made a lot of outrageous assumptions about Zhuangzi's ability in teaching based on one thing - his Russian pronounciation.

I do not know how good a teacher Zhuangzi is as I have never used his teaching service before. I do know that he is an excellent learner and is generous to share his thoughts here in this forum.

It was this thread that prompted me to buy Zhuangzi's book PRIOR to him appearing on this thread because I found the techniques strikingly similar to his and I wanted to find out more. As much as you hate his "crook businessman" mentality, would you do the same if the founder of Assimil (if he is still alive) come in here and share his thoughts on this. Another crooked businessman trying to take advantage of your "invention"?

Once again, I sincerely thank you Siomotteikiru for sharing your techniques here. I admire your dedication and generosity. Peace.....

Edited by PuYi on 27 July 2007 at 10:31am

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siomotteikiru
Senior Member
Zaire
Joined 4411 days ago

102 posts - 240 votes 

 
 Message 206 of 489
27 July 2007 at 10:42am | IP Logged 
Who told you I am against Zhuangzi as a teacher?

I only say his Russian pronunciation is a disaster because it is. Nothing more, nothing less.
His Chinese might be perfect, but it has nothing to do with his Russian pronunciation which is a disaster. Major Disaster. Very military. General Consternation.

Private Property.

1 person has voted this message useful



lloydkirk
Diglot
Senior Member
United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4463 days ago

429 posts - 452 votes 
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 207 of 489
27 July 2007 at 10:43am | IP Logged 
Censorship is such a subjective topic. Some people feel there isn't enough and others want to do away with it. The USA is one of the least censored countries in the world, somewhere in the top 10. I doubt siomotteikiru has spent much time in the states considering his statement on rampant censorship. In my opinion, some countries could use a little more citizenship like Poland
for instance...

Edited by lloydkirk on 27 July 2007 at 10:46am

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frenkeld
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4993 days ago

2042 posts - 2719 votes 
Speaks: Russian*, English
Studies: German

 
 Message 208 of 489
27 July 2007 at 10:51am | IP Logged 
PuYi wrote:
As a native speaker of both Mandarin and Chinese, Zhuangzi's pronounciation in both are close to perfect at 99%. I'm sure his Russian will one day be at that level if not more, just not at the speed that you demand.


I thought I swore off the forum entirely for now, but this thread is still affecting my study plans ...

At any rate, it's probably not even the question of speed, but the question of the learning sequence. Those who like to learn their languages by reading books and building up vocabulary before doing anything else have made a decision to postpone dealing with issues like pronunciation. (In fact, I've been suspecting for a while that most forum debates about various methods are really about the sequence, not the content.)

The only question is whether this leaves some permanent "damage" to one's ability to acquire proper pronunciation later.

Since I enjoy reading more than any other activity, I would be most grateful if Steve could share more of his own experiences in this regard, i.e., whether he had successfully followed the approach of "reading and vocabulary first - pronunciation later" with any of the languages he already speaks well.


Edited by frenkeld on 27 July 2007 at 11:48am



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