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Listening-Reading system

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply
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Zhuangzi
Nonaglot
Language Program Publisher
Senior Member
Canada
lingq.com
Joined 5137 days ago

646 posts - 687 votes 
Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 241 of 489
31 July 2007 at 10:13am | IP Logged 
lloydkirk,

Don't worry about siomotteikiru. In amongst her kook rants you will find some good advice on language learning.
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lloydkirk
Diglot
Senior Member
United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4522 days ago

429 posts - 452 votes 
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 242 of 489
31 July 2007 at 11:14am | IP Logged 
I very much respect her knowledge and methods regarding language learning, but she could try to be more courteous and avoid the rants, it detracts from the purpose of the thread. However, I have found some problems with her method.

1.) I don't think it works for a beginner. You need to have a foundation in the basic grammar and vocabulary of the language. Why? Because, depending on the novel, you'll be exposed early on to obscure/advanced literary tenses and vocabulary before you have mastered the basics of the colloquial language. I find it would be wise to do assimil or fsi before.

2.) Parallel texts are hard to come buy. While browsing on amazon I could find maybe 2-3 english-German short stories. Making parallel texts is tedious at best.

Lastly, it won't suit everyone's learning style. If you dislike assimil, you'll dislike this.
1 person has voted this message useful



Zhuangzi
Nonaglot
Language Program Publisher
Senior Member
Canada
lingq.com
Joined 5137 days ago

646 posts - 687 votes 
Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 243 of 489
31 July 2007 at 11:59am | IP Logged 
I think beginners need easy material.

We will experiment with this approach at LingQ by having parallel beginner texts in several languages.

I did something similar in Russian. We have a simple story in English divided into 27 30-60 second segments of audio complete with transcript. I had it translated into Russian.One of our programmars is Russian and he and his wife recorded the dialogue.

I listened to it at first while reading the English. Then I listened to the Russian alone a least 50 times, while jogging and doing other things. It was there that I found that interlaced text did not work for me. Some of the phrases that come most often to my mind in Russian are from this content.

We have now translated this text into Spanish and French,(our learners did this) and this is available in the LingQ library. We hope to have more translations of this and other material.
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siomotteikiru
Senior Member
Zaire
Joined 4470 days ago

102 posts - 241 votes 

 
 Message 244 of 489
31 July 2007 at 1:50pm | IP Logged 
It does work for beginners, the text should be translated in a special way.

I know a six-year-old girl who is listening-reading to fairy tales by Andersen. She's learning English.

Censorship has a lot to do with parallel texts.
I've been enraged time and again -
I wanted to make parallel Spanish-English-Russian-Italian texts of Lolita by Nabokov and 1984 by Orwell, Italian-English-Polish-Russian of The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco, and I couldn't. The books were censored in one language at least.
It happens time and again, I buy books, audiobooks, just to waste the money and time and trust.
They censor everything, even H.C. Andersen.

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FSI
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4468 days ago

550 posts - 590 votes 
Speaks: English*

 
 Message 245 of 489
31 July 2007 at 3:26pm | IP Logged 
lloydkirk wrote:

1.) I don't think it works for a beginner.


If you use a text that's too complicated for your level with the language, you may have trouble. Anna Karenina is an intermediate-to-advanced level text in any language.

In contrast, The Light Princess is an excellent read for children and adults alike. The method works best when you use a text that is already easily understandable in your L1.

Quote:

You need to have a foundation in the basic grammar and vocabulary of the language. Why? Because, depending on the novel, you'll be exposed early on to obscure/advanced literary tenses and vocabulary before you have mastered the basics of the colloquial language.


You don't have to use a novel. If you do choose a novel, choose one you can easily understand in your L1. Fairy tales and childrens' stories are excellent choices. In addition, there are plenty of short stories one can use the method with.


Quote:

2.) Parallel texts are hard to come buy. While browsing on amazon I could find maybe 2-3 english-German short stories. Making parallel texts is tedious at best.


I don't use parallel texts, or make them. A book in the L2 plus a translation in the L1 (plus the audiobook in L2) has enabled me to fit the method to my own style, with success. Perhaps you could try a similar approach.


Quote:

Lastly, it won't suit everyone's learning style. If you dislike assimil, you'll dislike this.


Of course. No style fits everyone. But for people looking for a cheap and effective means of learning languages, this is surely one to consider.
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siomotteikiru
Senior Member
Zaire
Joined 4470 days ago

102 posts - 241 votes 

 
 Message 246 of 489
01 August 2007 at 12:25am | IP Logged 
frenkeld
Quote:

By the way, if you feel like answering my question in the thread about the reason for the need for side-by-side bilingual texts with the method, it would be most welcome. I prepared such a text, but tend to use the separate monolingual versions, since I don't have to sit at the computer then.



Vertical side by side texts are much easier to use. You can check the meaning or the spelling instantly without stopping the audio. Echoic and iconic memories are very short (less than one second), so you get lost when you use printed books.

Once you've prepared a bilingul parallel text, it is easy to make multiligual ones, you just copy one side and paste it to another version.

You can translate easily using vertical texts, you just cover one side.

You can see what is missing and wonder why it is so.

There should be a law enforced by God Almighty: All translated texts should be published as parallel ones, there would be less cheating and bungling.
And censorship would be more difficult.

If you'd rather use a printed version, you can print an e-text, and a computer is an excellent tool for printing.
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siomotteikiru
Senior Member
Zaire
Joined 4470 days ago

102 posts - 241 votes 

 
 Message 247 of 489
01 August 2007 at 2:34am | IP Logged 
Here's an unabridged parallel text of "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" by Lewis Carroll, prepared by me (Phi-Staszek=siomottekikiru) for Polish learners of English.
It's for complete beginners, the text is translated word for word, if necessary. Grammar codes are included, too.

www.stultorum.pochta.ru\Eng\AliceP-A-Gr.7z

One day is enough to listen-read to the whole book three times.

Warning:
Do not try to learn Polish using the texts.
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asad100101
Diglot
Senior Member
Pakistan
languagel.blogspot.c
Joined 4564 days ago

118 posts - 137 votes 
Speaks: Hindi*, English

 
 Message 248 of 489
01 August 2007 at 7:08am | IP Logged 
I am reading and listening crime and punishment novel. My mind wanders away too many times in the middle and it is difficult for me to give full 100% concentration on doing this. Any remedy to counter this. I dont know how people can listen to something straight for 12 hours(or even 3/4 hours for that matter). To me it seems impossible to do that at best I can listen to 4 hours a day and that is even into small chunks of one hour each throughout the day.



Edited by asad100101 on 01 August 2007 at 7:11am



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