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Listening-Reading system

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply
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vanityx3
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4624 days ago

331 posts - 326 votes 
1 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Spanish, Japanese

 
 Message 473 of 489
08 February 2008 at 9:31pm | IP Logged 
atamagaii wrote:
ProfArguelles wrote:
the bilingual text format with recorded material in target language only that is the best method.


It's been used for years in Poland, for instance.

What makes L-R different is:
)

4. speaking and writing only after the incubation period,that is after getting to the stage of natural listening.

5. the Assault (= massive exposure in a relatively short time)

6. taking into account all the sub-systems: pronunciation, grammar, vocabulary and discourse (= how to produce texts), discourse in textbooks is artificial and often wrong).




Actually the older Assimil tapes ProfArguelles talks of are recorded by proffesional actors and the converstations are of good quality.
Also ProfArguelles talks of editing the tapes so they are only in the target language and also where there is little break in between. ProfArguelles also listens a lot with his method and gets a lot of exposure as well.

I think the methods are very similar in many ways except that:
L-R is cheaper
L-R uses literature and ProfArguelles has used Conversations and their parallel texts.(Assimil)
L-R give you more exposure to all verbs including literary types of verbs such as floundered or teetered where the other method will give you exposure verbs that are used commonly in speaking and writing.

Also ProfArguelles starts speaking very soon, which may not be for everyone as atamagaii frequently warns and I believe too.

Edited by vanityx3 on 08 February 2008 at 10:06pm

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atamagaii
Senior Member
Anguilla
Joined 4369 days ago

181 posts - 195 votes 
Speaks: Apache*

 
 Message 474 of 489
08 February 2008 at 9:55pm | IP Logged 
To compare Assimil to a novel, or Assimil recordings to Jeremy Irons reading Lolita...
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vanityx3
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4624 days ago

331 posts - 326 votes 
1 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Spanish, Japanese

 
 Message 475 of 489
08 February 2008 at 10:05pm | IP Logged 
atamagaii wrote:
To compare Assimil to a novel, or Assimil recordings to Jeremy Irons reading Lolita...


Exactly, my point, it depends on what you like better apples or oranges, literature or conversation. I like both. :)
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atamagaii
Senior Member
Anguilla
Joined 4369 days ago

181 posts - 195 votes 
Speaks: Apache*

 
 Message 476 of 489
08 February 2008 at 10:32pm | IP Logged 
To vantyx3
There are people who like cucumbers, I prefer the gardener's daughter.

Back to the topic:

TIME
Time is life.
(until we enter the realm of timelessness).

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run
                                                                                        Rudyard Kipling


Have you lived one million hours?

24x30=720
x12=8640
x10=86400

Sleep:
school:
television, computer games, etc:
Killing time is not so much murder as suicide.


SENSORY MEMORY:
echoic (auditory): 1 (one) second
iconic (visual): 0.6 second
Never underestimate the power of a fraction of a second.


PIMSLEUR (Japanese, Part I, II, III)
90 units x 30 minutes = 45 hours
silence: 23 hours
language material: 40 (forty) minutes, short "dialogues" about nothing
the price:
time to earn the money:


AN AUDIOBOOK
(an average novel)
time: six to twelve hours
language material: six to twelve hours
the price:


siomotteikiru


Edited by atamagaii on 08 February 2008 at 10:48pm

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atamagaii
Senior Member
Anguilla
Joined 4369 days ago

181 posts - 195 votes 
Speaks: Apache*

 
 Message 477 of 489
10 February 2008 at 8:29am | IP Logged 
Fränzi wrote:
Quote:
So how many people here actually use the same novel in every language?


atamagaii=siomotteikiru=Phi-Staszek replied:
Quote:

Andersen's Fairy Tales
Le petit prince
Carroll - Alice in Wonderland
Collodi - Pinocchio
Orwell - 1984
Orwell - Animal Farm
Bulgakov - Master and Margarita
Kafka - The Trial
Kafka - The Castle
Camus - The Outsider
Nabokov - Lolita
Conrad - Lord Jim
Tolstoy - Anna Karenina
Each of them in at least three languages, some in as many as eight.

I might add: it is also good to use different translations of the same novel in one language: I used four different English translations of The Trial by Kafka, for instance. And different recordings of the same novel in one language, unabridged ones and then ubridged ones or/and radio adaptations.


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Alkeides
Senior Member
Bhutan
Joined 4311 days ago

636 posts - 644 votes 

 
 Message 478 of 489
10 February 2008 at 8:59am | IP Logged 
For step 3, do you have to slow your reading down to match what you think you hear, or just read at your normal pace, which for me is at least a few paragraphs ahead, <though spoken French (I'm L-Ring L'etranger now) is quite fast, faster than English anyway>?
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Alkeides
Senior Member
Bhutan
Joined 4311 days ago

636 posts - 644 votes 

 
 Message 479 of 489
10 February 2008 at 9:08am | IP Logged 
Also, for step 2, I don't really understand the purpose that you have stated. To separate the sounds into individual words when I do step 3 later?
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atamagaii
Senior Member
Anguilla
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181 posts - 195 votes 
Speaks: Apache*

 
 Message 480 of 489
10 February 2008 at 9:15am | IP Logged 
To amphises
What a curious question! I keep getting it time and again. I'd solw down to match, and listen to the same fragment a few times, if necessary.

Step 3 does not make much sense if you don't understand what you're hearing. Books for beginners should be translated word-for-word, I made it clear in my first post, and then repeated it many a time.
If they are not translated word-for-word, it is still possible to do Step 3, but it would require much more effort and experience in learning foreign languages.

Let me stress once more: L-R is not a mechanical process, it is not a magic wand, it takes LOVE and BRAINS and it requires all your powers of concentration for a very long time.

If you are not able to do it, you have to train yourself. L-R is not for tinkering polygots playing with the idea of becoming a Ziad Fazah and changing their language every other day. It's meant for literature lovers. If you love what you're doing, you never get tired nor bored, you want more and more of it.

Edited by atamagaii on 10 February 2008 at 9:31am



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