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Listening-Reading system

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply
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atamagaii
Senior Member
Anguilla
Joined 4317 days ago

181 posts - 195 votes 
Speaks: Apache*

 
 Message 449 of 489
04 February 2008 at 9:39am | IP Logged 

To slucido

Polish learners of English pronounce "love" and "laugh" exactly in the same way: /laf/ - in a Polish way, and Polish /laf/ has nothing to do with English "love" nor "laugh".
Sit, seat, sid, seed are all pronouced /sit/.
Japanese learners of English pronounce "text" - /tekisuto/.

When you get down to a language in a roundabout (suicidal) way, starting from reading, you actually pronounce everything in your native way. No wonder you cannot understand when you listen to native speakers. You have simply learned a different (non-existent) language.

I can't tell you what you should do. I only know what I would try to do if I were you (fortunately, I am not).
1. I'd stop reading.
2. I'd do Step 2 and Step 3 of the L-R
3. I'd learn phonetics
4. I'd repeat after good actors reading novels I like
5. I'd start reading again (without listening)
6. I'd listen and read separately

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atamagaii
Senior Member
Anguilla
Joined 4317 days ago

181 posts - 195 votes 
Speaks: Apache*

 
 Message 450 of 489
04 February 2008 at 9:59am | IP Logged 
To leserables (see his post above, page 59)

You're talking about teaching, I'm talking about learning.
You learn on your own, and you want to.
Teachers hardly ever have anything to do with learning.
I have nothing against non-native speakers, I am against listening to them if you want to   learn how to pronounce properly in your target language, that's why I wouldn't listen to QingZ (Zhuangzi's) podcasts.



Edited by atamagaii on 04 February 2008 at 10:05am

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slucido
Bilingual Diglot
Senior Member
Spain
https://goo.gl/126Yv
Joined 4786 days ago

1296 posts - 1781 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan*
Studies: English

 
 Message 451 of 489
04 February 2008 at 3:52pm | IP Logged 
atamagaii wrote:

1. I'd stop reading.
2. I'd do Step 2 and Step 3 of the L-R
3. I'd learn phonetics
4. I'd repeat after good actors reading novels I like
5. I'd start reading again (without listening)
6. I'd listen and read separately


It makes sense.

Do you mean step 2 and 3 during for 8-10 hours 3-7 days or it doesn't make sense such intense schedule in that situation?

How do you recommend learning phonetics? Something like " Ship or Sheep?" book ?



Edited by slucido on 04 February 2008 at 3:53pm

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atamagaii
Senior Member
Anguilla
Joined 4317 days ago

181 posts - 195 votes 
Speaks: Apache*

 
 Message 452 of 489
04 February 2008 at 10:31pm | IP Logged 
To slucido once more

I cannot recommend anything. It's entirely up to you how intense (or tense) you'll make it.

By the way, you can find plenty of phonetics books at englishtips.
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CaitO'Ceallaigh
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
katiekelly.wordpress
Joined 4968 days ago

795 posts - 829 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian
Studies: Czech, German

 
 Message 453 of 489
06 February 2008 at 5:22pm | IP Logged 
Atamagaii, what are your thoughts on the IPA?
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daristani
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5255 days ago

738 posts - 1635 votes 
Studies: Uzbek

 
 Message 454 of 489
06 February 2008 at 7:21pm | IP Logged 
For devotees of the listening-reading/massive input approaches to language learning, here's an article about a recent study that seems to support the effectiveness of this approach, based on observations of the way small children appear to learn words in groups rather than, as previously thought, as individual lexical items:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080129215316.ht m
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Zhuangzi
Nonaglot
Language Program Publisher
Senior Member
Canada
lingq.com
Joined 5139 days ago

646 posts - 687 votes 
Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 455 of 489
06 February 2008 at 10:34pm | IP Logged 
I did not understand the link about word mining.

What is can say is that I have never met a person who spoke a language really well and whose accent put me off. I have met people with an exaggerated American or British accent who speak poorly. They make a worse impression. Accent or pronunciation perfection is overrated as a skill.

Learning to speak well requires a lot of reading in the language. As early as possible is a good time to start in my view.
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CaitO'Ceallaigh
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
katiekelly.wordpress
Joined 4968 days ago

795 posts - 829 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian
Studies: Czech, German

 
 Message 456 of 489
07 February 2008 at 12:56am | IP Logged 
I guess they're equating the "chunking" of meaningful groups of words with data mining. I guess over a period of time, the brain automatically picks up what is most important, like these computerized data mining tools. That's my understanding of it. Putting it into an adult context, it would make sense to me, then, that learning a language requires a significant amount of meaningful oral input. But without the context of a three-dimensional childhood, adults have to create articial means. Why not a good book?


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