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Japanese from scratch TAC 2015 東亜 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5184 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 1449 of 1702 02 August 2014 at 1:36am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't think there's a catch. It's not one on one - there can be up to 3 other learners with you. It's actually really similar to the Japanese Online Institute's flex sessions. Of course, I'll know for sure when I do it tomorrow.
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| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5184 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 1450 of 1702 03 August 2014 at 2:21am | IP Logged | ||
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Well I did my live tutor session. It was a lot of fun. I was a bit nervous but no where near as much as when I did Japanese for the 1st time... ironically I had been studying Japanese quite a bit longer I think. I can check my journal maybe. I think I did pretty well considering but this lady from Japan was clearly on another level. I crammed phrases like "I don't know" a couple of hours before class but I got so nervous I just forgot stuff I'd been studying today really. Stuff from yesterday and before I could still think of thankfully and I'm pretty happy with the result. Anyway, I got a reply from the Japanese student:
ポールさん、私初めてじゃないです。ロゼッ タで１０ヶ月勉強してます。日本語と韓国語 はよく似ているから、ポールさんもすぐ上手 くなりますよ。 No problem reading that lol. Kanji and all. Despite my complaining I'm not that weak at kanji. Even if I master it completely eventually though, I'll still complain I think. So she's got about 10 months on me which explains a lot. I've been pretty much flying through the Rosetta lessons but this section does counters and some other stuff and it's throwing me off. I did learn the numbers up to 20 but when you actually -use- the numbers I think they use a whole different system. IE Korean vs Chinese or something. A bit of a pain. I guess I can't count yet. When the lesson ended I spoke a bit of Japanese to the other student and it was kind of funny watching the Korean tutor strain to understand (I think she knows a little Japanese). Revenge XD. (even if she was nice) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5184 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 1451 of 1702 05 August 2014 at 6:37am | IP Logged | ||
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I found a great youtube series for learning Korean. I'll look for more as this seems to get you through the beginner levels only but I'm not sure. It's like a classroom - with a teacher using a chalkboard (I miss chalkboards!) to teach stuff. What's really neat is that they have the same series but presented in Japanese intead of English. I just started watching a couple minutes of the 1st one and it was great. I really liked the teacher's Japanese it was easy to understand. Really good accent. However, since she speaks Japanese as a 2nd language she naturally grades her language using vocab/grammar I'm more likely to know too. I plan on watching lessons in both English and Japanese.
Here's a link to the Japanese Korean.. SEEMILE Korean Class 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4665 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 1452 of 1702 06 August 2014 at 8:08pm | IP Logged | ||
That's a really nice set of lessons (long too). I had it on in the background at work today. I'm certainly not about to delve into Korean just yet, but she's certainly good to listen to just to hear the Japanese. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5184 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 1453 of 1702 09 August 2014 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm enjoying the Talk to Me in Korean lessons. They don't have the line by line audio that koreanclass101.com has for making flashcards but the episodes are fast and the PDF's are free. One thing that gets me is that when the koreans slow down their pronunciation to help the learner.. they changethe pronunciation. The word for this is a good example. (I'm listening to an episode on it). it's IGO. But when they say it slowly.. it becomes.. I-KO. I've picked up that voiced consonants aren't really used at the beginning of words in Korean but really.. couldn't they make a little effort? Or maybe it's just that hard.
I'm making progress on my flashcard deck. I have a goal to learn the 1st 1000 words as soon as possible and I'm using the koreanclass101.com list since it's got pics/audio and is easy to rip onto my flashcard app. I also added some counters and the native korean numbers and some misc stuff too.. I'm up to 300 now. Sorta. And I'm able to do production type flashcards now instead of just passive recognition so it's sticking better thankfully. I had a couple JOI classes yesterday. Back to back. It had been a few weeks but it wasn't too bad at all. Possibly because I watch anime every day anyway (with subs generally but still I am hearing the Japanese). And I am starting up my Japanese vocab deck again. I'm pretty impressed with my ability to cram lots of Japanese vocab in a small amount of time. I wonder if it recently got better or gradually or whatever. But when I compare it to trying to learn Korean vocabulary.. wow. The Korean is getting better though. Part of the challenge I think is just the sounds of the Korean language. I'm getting used to it but they have a lot more vowels than Japanese and I really can't differentiate between a few of them which can't help memorizing words. Having a really good clear idea in your head of how a word should sound and how you'll say it is important I think. Then again, just it being a new language in general, there's probably a lot going on in my head that makes it harder too. I ran into a wall of sorts with Rosetta Stone in that I wasn't able to figure out the grammar and vocabulary in their sentences just from context/pictures alone. Part of that was just not knowing counters or native korean numbers. There's some stuff too like question words and well not really knowing how to conjugate verbs but faking it. I diligently made my way through Rosetta Lesson 1 anyway and have another Rosetta tutor session today. I might record it. There's pretty much no need to record a Japanese tutor session at all since I don't ever get lost but with a brand new language.. I can see the value. I found a nice anki deck based off rosetta korean. It's missing the audio/pictures you get from Rosetta but it should be very helpful for making myself produce responses instead of just passively listening which is what Rosetta mostly focuses on.. until you get to the tutor session when she makes you talk and it's just the opposite. As for reading the hangul. I'm slowly getting better. But I'm not forcing it at all. All of my flashcards have audio - mostly native audio but also text to speech. --- *edit* My Japanese is actually getting used a bit. It seems a good number of Korean students on Rosetta are Japanese. English speakers are still the majority but i'm getting messages in Japanese too now. Edited by kraemder on 09 August 2014 at 6:52pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5184 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 1454 of 1702 09 August 2014 at 9:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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A problem with alphabets is that they can have exceptions. In Korean, I'm noticing they drop sounds/letters from words to make it easier to say. And it's annoying as hell. 3학년이에요. for example. You don't say the ㅎ or the ㄱ in the letter directly after the 3. Granted, kanji have a billion readings and they stink. But if something is written in hiragana.. you can read it no matter how ignorant you are.
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| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6552 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 1455 of 1702 09 August 2014 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | ||
Technically, those are not exceptions, those are pronunciation rules. Once you master them, you'll be able to read hangul without problems. And the goal of these rules is to ease the pronunciation. For example, the p - m change in 합니다. It's difficult to say [hapnida] so it's changed to [hamnida]. It happens every time n follows p. The same with k and n in 학년. Every time n follows k, the k changes to 'ng' so you're actually saying 항년. As for the ㅎ, it's mostly silent in the middle of words but it's not wrong to say it either. It depends on how quickly you speak. You can think of 'n' as a very powerful letter because it assimilates all the 't' sounds that come before it. For example: 끝나다 (to be over) sounds like 끈나다 and 있나요 (does it exist) sounds like 인나요. You get the idea. But 'l' is the one letter that trumps 'n'. Whenever these two are next to each other, they are pronounced as double 'l'. For example: 연락하다 (to contact) sounds like 열락하다. And here are a couple more rules. They occur rather rarely so you can leave them for later if you want. First - 'ng' trumps 'l'. For example: 대통령 (president of a country) sounds like 대통녕. And this is the most bizarre one. The k - l combination is pronounced like ng - n. For example: 독립 (independence) sounds like 동닙. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Sizen Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4339 days ago 165 posts - 347 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Catalan, Spanish, Japanese, Ukrainian, German | Message 1456 of 1702 10 August 2014 at 2:24am | IP Logged | ||
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Well, not to play Devil`s advocate, but even Japanese has exceptions. A lot of them are
just hidden by Kanji, but not all. The most common, which you've most likely noticed, is how gemination can occur when certain syllables precede certain consonants. If you have く or つ as the last character of a kanji, for example, followed by a k, p, h, t, s, etc, the we get a っ instead. This is similar to a lot of the exceptions you'll find in Korean, the only difference being that these sound changes are NOT reflected in hangeul for some reason. It would be the same as writing 発表 as はつひょう in Japanese or 学校 as がくこう, but reading it differently because you understand the implicit sound change. Another common exception, which is really just a rule, is the ん problem. Lot's of people learning Japanese don't even know that the character is read 4 different ways depending on the consonant that follows it. Normally it's just "n". Before m, b, p it becomes an "m". Before k and g it becomes a soft "ng" sound. Before any vowels or "y"-line syllables, it almost becomes a "y". (This is supposedly where the English "Yen" comes from. People misinterpreted 千円 [sen'en] as senyen.) Another example of an exception that isn't reflected in Hiragana writings is the dropping of く in some words. 洗濯機 is written せんたくき in Hiragana but most often read as せんたっき. 三角形 is normally written さんかくけい but read as さんかっけい. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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