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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
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tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
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Joined 2812 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 857 of 1511
13 September 2013 at 3:10pm | IP Logged 
Well, they are a problem that doesn't have a beginner's priority. But Hanja are a problem
that you eventually have to deal with. However since I'm taking the Mezzofanti approach
on this one I'll deal with Hanja later. And Sino-Korean vocabulary is a thing. But maybe
I will combine it with learning Mandarin later on.

WHO KNOWS
1 person has voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2812 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 858 of 1511
14 September 2013 at 11:18am | IP Logged 
Had a look at some hangul and TTMIK's first lesson/podcast yesterday. Snail tempo. But
with Korean I don't mind.
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tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2812 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 859 of 1511
16 September 2013 at 3:22pm | IP Logged 
Korean

I've been listening to the podcasts of TTMIK only so far, and studied hangul. I can
recognise hangul slowly but I can't write them out (and don't have experience typing
yet), but as I want to focus on listening, reading and speaking for now (and maybe do
some writing later on), I am not too concerned with that. Recognition I can do and that
is my main goal. I've got up until lesson 6 of level 1 of the TTMIK podcasts.

I'm also changing up the approach for Korean a bit from my usual routine. Because I
hate classroom textbooks with lots of exercises (they bore the shit out of me), and
because I don't want to concern myself with Assimil lessons right now, and the chore of
doing them every day and adding vocabulary to Anki, I won't be doing that. In fact, I'm
doing something I'm not used to doing and using a more audio-based approach with
these podcasts. I will get into some grammar and start writing later, but for now, I
just want to enjoy reading about, learning about, and recognising Korean, and being
able to speak it back to somebody, not to decline verbs or learn about the vagaries of
word order or polite forms in Korean.

Similarly, I will look up Hanja if I encounter them and need to know urgently what it
means, but I am not, for the moment, concerned with Hanja. This will come, but we're
not there yet. I haven't yet decided what I will do with speaking practice. My usual
strategy is to line up some basics first and THEN dive into iTalki when I am confident
of being able to hold some form of conversation and form some sentences. It does not
have to be perfect. I did not speak Hebrew perfectly during my trial runs of using it
on iTalki either but I spoke it at a level where communication was certainly possible
albeit a bit laborious. And I can speak and understand Romanian and Russian without
trouble (with mistakes, of course). But I had my solid basics that I obtained from
somewhere.

I'm also taking a more audio-based approach now because I realised that pronunciation
(although it's something *I* spend time on in any case) is a very important part of
speaking and I need to do more with developing my ability to listen and to notice what
is going on while speaking. Reading is an easy skill to cultivate. I could take Spanish
or Portuguese texts and make sense of them, even though I have never studied either
language, because of their similarities. I will not understand all the nuances, but it
would be easy to do so should I wish to develop that skill!

But that doesn't mean anything when you get into a conversation and you cannot
understand what people are saying, or only half, or 80%, and focusing is a struggle.
This happens to me too! And although I have had PLENTY of success with using written
materials, and I will be using written materials for Korean, the more audio-based
approach will also be important because Korean is a language with its own
phonological fabric, stress systems and assimilation which is very different from any
other language I know!
Personally, I don't mind using either type of resource,
although I am more of a visual learner so I tend to prefer the written word so that I
can see what is going on. This is exactly why I am changing my routine to
understand the values of audio-based learning and see what I can do with it,
because eventually, my goal is to speak fluent Korean, where I define fluency as
about a B2 level.

No. I do not care about perfectionism in any language (except perhaps French). I am
very comfortable maintaining a very large number of languages at a B2 level of fluency,
where conversation is not a problem, people do not need to dumb down their vocabulary,
and where I can enjoy every part of the language without being bothered by elementary
problems.


Expressing these at a higher level is something I would consider if: I was planning
an extended sojourn in the country, require the language for a professional reason, or
have a girlfriend/spouse from that country!
. Option 3 is not relevant at this time,
option 2 is something I am considering working on for several languages (including
French) and option 1 is something that is on the cards, but I am intending to do it in
a country where I have already prepared for going there by studying the language in
advance
, so that I can focus on adapting to the culture of that country where the
language is spoken.

Yes, I do learn some language out of grammatical interest. These are languages such
as Breton and Icelandic, but I am not in a hurry to speak these professionally to other
people, although I enjoy getting the opportunity when I can
!

But this is Korean. And my intention is to speak Korean. To make Korean friends, enjoy
Korean cuisine, and be able to travel in Korea and understand the local Korean customs,
just like I did in Russia this summer.

My travels in Russia strengthened my belief that knowing the language before you travel
there is a huge advantage and gives you a unique insight into that culture! I
have had experiences in Russia that no mere tourist could have had because they were
unable to speak the language. I am also okay with travelling solo for this reason so
that I can consciously allow myself to be put into situations where I am required to
rely on my own ability to solve problems without having to concern myself for the well-
being of another who might have another goal and interest. Not that I will never travel
accompanied with someone else - those travels can be very fun and interesting - but it
is an advantage of solo travel. I intend to repeat this experience for Korea. I have
only visited Incheon airport, but my inability to speak Korean and my wonder at how
different even the airport is has made me consider that I need to travel in the far
East to broaden my horizons. And to that, a knowledge of the language and culture of
the place you travel in are indispensable tools. You can do without them, but they make
your life easier.

(And I know what it's like not to have those tools).

other languages

I have not studied any other languages, although I have messaged in Swedish, Romanian,
Russian and French as usual. I get around linguistically.

Edited by tarvos on 16 September 2013 at 3:23pm

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Solfrid Cristin
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Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
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Norway
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4143 posts - 8862 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 860 of 1511
16 September 2013 at 3:32pm | IP Logged 
God Almighty. KOREAN!!!! Wow, and tripple wow.

You are out of your mind. And I say that with all of the love in the world :-)

Joking aside, I think you are a major inspiration. I look forward to following your progress.
1 person has voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2812 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 861 of 1511
16 September 2013 at 3:40pm | IP Logged 
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
God Almighty. KOREAN!!!! Wow, and tripple wow.

You are out of your mind. And I say that with all of the love in the world :-)

Joking aside, I think you are a major inspiration. I look forward to following your
progress.


To be fairly honest, I doubt I was ever in my right mind.
1 person has voted this message useful



Hekje
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
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 Message 862 of 1511
16 September 2013 at 6:36pm | IP Logged 
Korean is an interesting choice. Good luck! Consider posting some audio when you get your footing?
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druckfehler
Triglot
Senior Member
Germany
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1181 posts - 1912 votes 
Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean
Studies: Persian

 
 Message 863 of 1511
17 September 2013 at 11:02am | IP Logged 
Nice to see an addition to the Korean club on HTLAL! Good luck with the language!

I think your approach is very sensible. Listening first will make a lot of things easier for you. I never had to struggle much with the phonetic shifts and end consonants (although a little with the double consonants), but I've heard many people with appalling, unintelligible Korean pronunciation and I'm sure it's because they didn't take the time to listen attentively first. Of course this also impeded their listening comprehension... To make listening more fun, I suggest you look into Korean Dramas, movies or music - there's a lot to like out there on the internet and not only K-Pop, but also some great indie music. It also makes sense to read a very good overview of Korean phonetics (the consonants depending on syllable position, sound changes in consonant clusters) so you know what to listen for.

It makes little sense to concern yourself with Hanja until you've reached at least B1 and even above that level I think they might be helpful, but are not necessary until C1/C2. You'll be exposed to Sino-Korean words right from the beginning. It only gets difficult when you're starting to see long, abstract words. At that point knowing what each syllable means (out of the many meanings it can have) will help.

Korean food is absolutely wonderful, the culture is very foreign and therefore interesting and the people are warm and usually rather excited and curious if they notice you're serious about learning their language. I hope you fall in love with Korean and Korea as much as myself, you'll probably need the extra motivation on your Korean journey ;)

Edited by druckfehler on 17 September 2013 at 11:26am

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tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2812 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 864 of 1511
18 September 2013 at 9:44am | IP Logged 
Mini-mission no. 1!

I have booked a class for Korean speaking (but it's only in 12 days because I have a life
to deal with). However, my plan is to speak ONLY KOREAN during this class. Yes, I will
not be able to say much! But I will keep my end of the conversation entirely in Korean.
Once I have had that class, and know where a 2-week beginner stands, I will probably
record something for you all on SoundCloud to listen to, so that you can follow my
progress in speaking Korean.


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