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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
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Teango
Triglot
Winner TAC 2010 & 2012
Senior Member
United States
teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3665 days ago

2210 posts - 3734 votes 
Speaks: English*, German, Russian
Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona

 
 Message 1441 of 1511
05 May 2015 at 8:11pm | IP Logged 
Ты собираешься сдавать ТРКИ-4...это просто потрясающе!!! Успехов тебе, Тарвос!
1 person has voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2816 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 1442 of 1511
10 May 2015 at 2:42am | IP Logged 
I was going to write a super-long entry, but I've fallen ill and so there's not much to
report; a lot of diarrhea combined with a headache means I've just been able to work and
do my regular teaching, and done a few iTalki classes, but no actual studying. I have
ideas for further expansion of my language skills, but an explanation will have to wait a
bit. It will come shortly, though.
3 persons have voted this message useful



Teango
Triglot
Winner TAC 2010 & 2012
Senior Member
United States
teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3665 days ago

2210 posts - 3734 votes 
Speaks: English*, German, Russian
Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona

 
 Message 1443 of 1511
10 May 2015 at 5:40am | IP Logged 
Выздоравливай скорее!
2 persons have voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2816 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 1444 of 1511
10 May 2015 at 5:40pm | IP Logged 
I hope this late night entry satisfies some of you because I'm giving up on some
needed sleep for this one.

Anyway, recently I've been working on many other languages besides my Chinese (for
which my motivation has sadly faltered somewhat due to circumstances here; but I still
speak Chinese every day and learned the words for "band-aid" and "paracetamol" today
and succesfully used them at a pharmacy, so I guess some progress after all? Anyway).

I've realised that to improve over the short term, that you need to set very concrete
goals for what you want to achieve. Very concrete goals means that they must tie in
to your real life activities
; learning 1500 characters isn't one of them, unless
your university asks that of you. For example, I have a goal to improve my Chinese
reading and learn all the Hanzi in Heisig's first volume, but I am really too lazy to
work on the Hanzi that way, especially because half of the characters I a) already
know all too well or b) never use. So that means this goal cannot be achieved
concretely enough in a micro-fashion. The best is something you can complete this or
next week or at least within a few months as a feasible deadline. Otherwise it's
useless.

This is why I am taking a new, improved approach to iTalki tutoring - I am going to
set myself improvement tasks to get the most out of every session and communicate
about this with the teacher beforehand (unless freeform conversation really is what I
need, like in for example Italian, although I might add new vocabulary based on what I
encounter in reading any Italian beforehand).

So, my concrete goals for all my languages are:

Russian: Sit the C2 exam for Russian. I am taking classes to prepare for
exactly this. I need this exam to prove to iTalki and other institutions that my
Russian is sufficient to teach it to others. And in order to one day go to St.
Petersburg and spend extended time there, but that plan is not concrete; the exam
date is yet to be determined.

Finnish: To be able to produce a script so that I can make basic introductions
in Finnish for my next class, explaining my name, my background, and my job, and my
nationality.

Italian: To be able to produce more grammatically coherent Italian that isn't
overly reliant on my other Romance languages. I plan to do this by continuing to use
freeform conversation in order to find natural gaps in my Italian as they occur, as
well as start writing more blog entries in Italian in the future and on lang-8 (where
I can get them corrected before I post finished versions on my blog). This is done in
order to ensure that I am writing actual Italian, and not loaning every single word I
don't know from another Romance language (usually French or Romanian but sometimes
also Spanish...)

Greek: To be able to produce grammatically correct Greek in speech using the
proper intonations and case endings, which is easy enough to do with a time and some
spellchecker but requires automaticity in real time. I'm working on some grammar
structures now in active use, and also on some vocabulary.

Esperanto: My goal is to socialise at an event for a week in August and I need
the necessary basic Esperanto to do so.

Other languages also have goals, but they are long term, except for Korean, which is
basically to be an acceptable tourist.

Once I have planned a date for the Russian exam I will repeat the trick for French and
attempt to go for C2. Which I was on my way to doing, but I got sidetracked. Oh well.

Edited by tarvos on 11 May 2015 at 6:02am

5 persons have voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2816 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 1445 of 1511
11 May 2015 at 9:42am | IP Logged 
You know your log is popular when you post about "I'm a bit sick, but I took a class" and
it gets two votes. Mysteriously.
3 persons have voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2816 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 1446 of 1511
12 May 2015 at 5:47pm | IP Logged 
Ok now you lot are all just trolling. Anyway, about Finnish and my little
experiment...

Basically what I did was the following:

- I wrote a short script explaining a few basic things about me (nothing that would
cause me to use complicated structures; just Tarzanesque I am Jorn, I am a teacher
etc). I wrote down a few useful phrases I might need (I don't understand, can you
write that down, etc). I also noted the question words down, but I forgot them all.
I'll put my script at the end of this post so you can see what I wrote for this class
as a preparation.

- I made sure I could pronounce all the Finnish sounds. There wasn't much new in terms
of phonology, but I should remember to stress the first syllable always (I have a
tendency to stress loanwords on other parts of the word). This worked like a charm, by
the way; the teacher realized 50 minutes in she didn't have to correct my
pronunciation even a single time. Every single sentence was clear; the only thing that
was screwing it up was grammar or unknown vocabulary, which I just don't know in
Finnish because guess what I DIDN'T STUDY IT.

- I kept my script and my phrasebook next to me during the class and cheated HARD on
vocabulary during class, but it helped to keep the class in Finnish for a very long
time.

I don't know any Finnish at all - I'm basically a complete beginner. Keep that in
mind. I do NOT SPEAK GOOD FINNISH.

Results of the experiment:

- You can keep a conversation in Finnish for a long time with a lot of imagination, a
few pauses, some explanations in English if you really don't get a word and a lot of
rephrasing or just... skipping stuff. And yes, I could understand the responses
sometimes! I wasn't prepared for them. But I could still manage due to context, and
when I didn't an en ymmärrä did the trick nicely, or a "kirjoita se, kiitos". I didn't
study for days on end - I just picked phrases from my Berlitz, looked up how to say "I
am from" and a few other words on wikibooks/wiktionary, put them in the script, and
that's it. Speak from day 1 works, even if you're studying Finnish. As proven by me.

- The pronunciation work always pays off. I was already noticing subtle details in the
pronunciation after an hour. I don't care how much people feel self-conscious,
practice in front of the goddamn mirror with the sounds. It will do you a world of
good to get them right from day 1. It's the first thing I do and clearly with reason.
I was understood the entire time because I can pronounce Finnish clearly and sight-
read it; I may not know the meaning of a word, but I sure can say it out loud!

- I was noticing grammatical trends in Finnish already. Plurals, partitives,
accusatives - just pay bloody attention to endings and to phonological changes and you
can work it out on your own. Don't dive into the grammar books if you can figure it
out yourself; the proper reasons will come later when you're comfortable with what you
are doing. If my teacher explained a thing I would simply copy the trick.

- Grammatical accuracy is less relevant than the right words when you're starting out.
If you misplace a case or a tense, you'll be understood. The cases aren't scary, by
the way - just think of it as a preposition you're plunking after the word, instead of
in front, and attach it, and you're good to go. Maybe change the vowel harmony if you
have to.

All in all, I didn't manage 60 minutes, but 45-50 I managed. That's more than good
enough for my first Finnish class ever.

This is why I say you can speak from the beginning. Just extrapolate, hack, and keep
going. If it can be done for Finnish it can certainly be done with Spanish.

THE SCRIPT I USED

ntroduce yourself in Finnish : script

Hyvää paivää. (Minun) nimeni on Jorn. Hauska tavata. Olen holantilainen. Olen
kaksikymmentäviisi (25). Olen töissä opettaja. Asun Kiinassa.
Good day. My name is Jorn. Nice to meet you. I am Dutch, and I am 25 years old. I work
as a teacher and I live in China.

Mitä kuuluu? - how are you?
- Kiitos hyvää. - thanks.
Important phrases
Kirjoita se, kiitos – Can you write that down?
En ymmärrä – I don't understand
Ymmärrän – I understand
Hyväksyntä – OK
Anteeksi – Sorry
Hyvästi – Bye.
Question words
Kuka - who
miksi - why
kumpi - which
mitä - what
milloin - when
missä – where (mistä - from where / minne - where to?)
kuinka - how

Edited by tarvos on 12 May 2015 at 5:49pm

3 persons have voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 4706 days ago

9753 posts - 15775 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 1447 of 1511
12 May 2015 at 6:14pm | IP Logged 
In my case the vote kinda meant "get well soon".
BTW, Hollanti with a double l. (and "olen töissä opettajana". or just "olen opettaja")

If you stick with it you'll start seeing all sorts of cute loans from russian. for example ikkuna.
1 person has voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2816 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 1448 of 1511
12 May 2015 at 6:20pm | IP Logged 
Yeah, it's a double l. I'm not picky about getting that stuff right if I'm speaking
Finnish for the first time though. That's, for me, secondary. I'm amazed they get what I
say at all.

In fact I am still pinching myself. o_O


1 person has voted this message useful



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