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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan

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tarvos
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 Message 41 of 1511
09 February 2012 at 12:10am | IP Logged 
I mean there are seven consonants in Russian that change the vowels after them - you can never have a soft vowel following one of these seven - г к ш щ ч х ж.

I am just joking that they are ugly consonants, haha, if you pronounce them they sound quite harsh (one of the many reasons why I am not very fond of my own language is their overuse of the g and ch). So if the Russian language produces an ugly consonant, it changes the following vowel to a hard one! It's a mnemonic I guess :)

If you form a plural or a genitive, if the stem ends in one of these consonants, you write и, NOT ы, is what I meant.
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Solfrid Cristin
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 Message 42 of 1511
09 February 2012 at 12:23am | IP Logged 
Ah, yes, now I see. I couldn't figure out what the ugly ones were :-)
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mrwarper
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 Message 43 of 1511
09 February 2012 at 12:39am | IP Logged 
Doesn't it stand out? Even my Russian friends say that 'ж' looks like some kind of bug ;)

BTW tarvos, most people I have heard say that there are no 'soft' vowels, but 'soft-indicating' because it's the preceding consonant what becomes soft. May be that's a bit in the stickler camp but David Freedel (author of the famous Princeton Russian Course) said there were further reasons to think about it that way. I didn't get to that part yet though...
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Марк
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 Message 44 of 1511
09 February 2012 at 1:45pm | IP Logged 
tarvos wrote:
I mean there are seven consonants in Russian that change the vowels after them - you can never have a soft vowel following one of these seven - г к ш щ ч х ж.

I am just joking that they are ugly consonants, haha, if you pronounce them they sound quite harsh (one of the many reasons why I am not very fond of my own language is their overuse of the g and ch). So if the Russian language produces an ugly consonant, it changes the following vowel to a hard one! It's a mnemonic I guess :)

If you form a plural or a genitive, if the stem ends in one of these consonants, you write и, NOT ы, is what I meant.

What do you mean? Жи ши are always spelt with и, although the pronunciation is жы, шы. Же,ше,це are apelt like this although pronounced жэ, шэ, цэ. Ча ща чу щу are always spelt like that and pronounced чя щя чю щю. Everything else is spelt as it is pronounced.
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tarvos
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 Message 45 of 1511
09 February 2012 at 1:52pm | IP Logged 
Yeah but you don't spell it that way. You never write the soft vowels after one of these. It's a way to remember how to spell a word, it's got nothing really to do with pronunciation.

You can never write ы after an ugly letter.
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Марк
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 Message 46 of 1511
09 February 2012 at 2:12pm | IP Logged 
Is ы a soft vowel then?!
Кыш! An interjection, means "go away", usually applied to birds.
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Teango
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 Message 47 of 1511
09 February 2012 at 2:43pm | IP Logged 
My first new Russian word of the day: "кыш!" or "кш!" (shoo!) - спасибо Марк. :)

Edited by Teango on 09 February 2012 at 2:43pm

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tarvos
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 Message 48 of 1511
09 February 2012 at 2:46pm | IP Logged 
ю е ё я и are soft from what I was taught,

and а э ы о у are hard.

But I could be wrong. My point is, that those seven trigger the spelling change.

But I think e is an exception. I'm not sure?

Ah, my reference says the following:

The 7 Consonant Rule. Also remember that after к г х (velars) and ш ж щ ч (hushes) never write ы but always и, e.g. студенты "students" but студентки "coeds", лифтёры "elevator operators" but лифтёрши "women elevator operators".

It only holds for that one vowel. I see.

Edited by tarvos on 09 February 2012 at 2:51pm



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