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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan

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Solfrid Cristin
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Studies: Russian

 
 Message 369 of 1511
04 December 2012 at 12:28pm | IP Logged 
I love being on a forum where Breton mutations is something which actually is of interest to people :-)
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tarvos
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Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 370 of 1511
04 December 2012 at 1:04pm | IP Logged 
I think the more pertinent thing about that is that if it's being written about, it's
in some scholarly fashion, and it hasn't been vulgarised (in the French sense of the
word) for people, especially not in English since the only people who will regularly be
in contact with the language are bound to be Francophones (although many Dutch and
English people possess property in Brittany - the reason I knew this language existed
was due to a good friend of mine spending countless holidays there - he described the
amount of materials as "the only thing we learned were the things we took home written
on a napkin in the car. That's how much materials there were". Presumably he did not
know about Assimil ten years ago).

It is true that Breton is rare and endangered and that I have had the luck to find a
good grammar in Brest (and a terrible dictionary - if anyone knows a good dictionary
for Breton in both directions please point me to it; English and French are allowed as
base languages), but if anything this log should be of interest to people for a few
reasons:

1) it is an uncommon source of exposure to a rare language which you cannot find
anywhere else on the internet
2) it is written in two languages that are most likely to be the native tongues of
people trying to learn that particular language
3) there is grammar, but it's not described as a set of tables; furthermore this means
you can learn about how the Breton language works while being taken through the steps
of a baby apprentice learner who has had to do it from scratch through a language that
is not his native tongue
4) at some point, it will be a source of written Breton which is rare enough on the
internet as it is
5) it defends the interests of a minority language from the viewpoint of an outsider to
the area.


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tarvos
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Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 371 of 1511
05 December 2012 at 11:15pm | IP Logged 
After having spent most of the past days doing things related to university, I have
also found a tiny bit of time for languages

SV: Först och främst har jag tittat på ett avsnitt av "The Bridge". Det är
delvis talat på svenska och danska. Jag tror att jag kan förstå en stor del av vad man
säger på svenska, men danska har jag ju betydligt svårare att fatta. Utan det förstår
jag ändå några ord eller meninger på dansk, men mest ofta använder man andra ord på
danska i motsats till svenska. Och uttalet hjälper inte.

BR: Desket am eus brezhoneg hiziv. Plijout a ra din al levr, met diaes eo gomz
brezhoneg ivez. Ur bern traoù eo ret din ober. Bremañ a skrivan galleg, peogwir a
komprenit.

FR: J'ai pas fait quelque chose d'intéressant en français, et j'ai pas eu la
force de finir mon livre hier. Donc je le finirai ce soir.

РУ:Наконец-то прочитал мой журнал на русском, но мне еще сложно было. И совсем
скучно. Гм.

Edited by tarvos on 06 December 2012 at 10:46pm

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Марк
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 Message 372 of 1511
06 December 2012 at 6:24pm | IP Logged 
tarvos wrote:

РУ:Наконец-то прочитал на русском, но мне еще сложно было. И совсем скучно. Гм.

Что прочитал? "Прочитать" cannot be used without a direct object as well as nearly all
transitive perfective verbs

Edited by Марк on 06 December 2012 at 6:25pm

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tarvos
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Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 373 of 1511
06 December 2012 at 10:46pm | IP Logged 
Что вы думаете?
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Solfrid Cristin
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Studies: Russian

 
 Message 374 of 1511
07 December 2012 at 12:45am | IP Logged 
Марк wrote:
tarvos wrote:

РУ:Наконец-то прочитал на русском, но мне еще сложно было. И совсем скучно. Гм.

Что прочитал? "Прочитать" cannot be used without a direct object as well as nearly all
transitive perfective verbs


Mark : You are great at reading and correcting, but don't forget the positive encouraging comments :-)
Remember to say at least one nice thing with every correction. That will change your comments from
bordering on the uncivil, to absolutely fantastic.

Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 07 December 2012 at 12:46am

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tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2814 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 375 of 1511
07 December 2012 at 1:43pm | IP Logged 
He doesn't even have to be nice to me, just not assume I am some bozo from Stupidistan
who has no idea what he's talking about. He can think that about anyone else, but with
me, that is probably NOT the correct assumption to make, particularly because I am
someone who cares about not being ignorant.

Anyhow:

Le Breton sans Peine (until lesson 35)

What I have learned so far is that the first mutation is really popular. It's not just
triggered by articles but also by half the prepositions, possessives and verbal
particles: and it can make words a little hard to understand sometimes just because
you're getting c'h instead of g, g instead of k, v instead of m, etc. Pretty much
everything forces a mutation, which also means dictionaries are nigh-on useless because
the basic form is practically never found in a text thanks to those mutations.

Oh well, c'est la vie, hein?

Furthermore I have learned to conjugate the verb "to have" in full, I can conjugate
pretty much all verbs in the present tense, the habitual tense, a sort of passé composé
form, the progressive tense, and that's it. Time to learn some more tenses such as a
future or an imperfect or a conditional. I know they exist, let's do this.

Oh I can form imperatives too.

Furthermore I have learned how to use the particle -se which is an epithet indicating
this or that. It's the only thing you use for demonstratives, so, in true Breton
fashion, it's really easy.

That means I am lacking three important grammatical things to speak fluent Breton:

1. Sufficient vocabulary
2. A handle on the other common verbal tenses
3. The mutations that are missing.

Furthermore I don't get any speaking practice, but it's an endangered language. C'est
la vie.
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mrwarper
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 Message 376 of 1511
07 December 2012 at 2:29pm | IP Logged 
At the risk of being told to mind my own business (which I'd consider OK so don't hesitate)...

From my experience, most Russians (and even me sometimes) are like that: it's not that they mean to be mean or rude or belittle anybody -- they simply think that pointing out what's wrong is enough (and are insensitive to how pointing out the fact may annoy somebody).

While that may be true for sufficiently advanced learners, it is not the general case.

So, without the need to get into any 'puke rainbows' zone being all happy all smiles all positive all the time, I would advice Mapk (or anybody, really) to please simply add "I'd say it this or that way, depending on such and such" after you point out that <whatever> is wrong. That may still not be 'nice' enough for some people, but I think it's way better in terms of usefulness, and I hope we all can accept as a lowest common denominator here.


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