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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
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tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2816 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 881 of 1511
25 September 2013 at 8:57pm | IP Logged 
prz_ wrote:
Oh my, this Anathema? What a surprise.

tavros wrote:
I think we've had some adaptations of foreign songs into Dutch, but not
many.

Hmm, not many?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8IFWcQoptE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNq-KQVMY04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTDV2Lcijxo
If you mean versions by the "original" artists, then true, it's extremely rare.

Btw., if we already talk about music - can you recommend some harder sounds in Dutch?
It's extremely hard to find any kind of rock/metal in Dutch. One of the humble
exceptions is this song: http://vimeo.com/37913836


That's because Dutch bands rarely sing in Dutch. Metal bands like never. Try Heidevolk,
they're folk/pagan/whatever metal. They sing in Dutch.
1 person has voted this message useful



prz_
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Poland
last.fm/user/prz_rul
Joined 2968 days ago

890 posts - 1190 votes 
Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian
Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish

 
 Message 882 of 1511
25 September 2013 at 9:11pm | IP Logged 
Pity. I don't like such dichotomy.
1 person has voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2816 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 883 of 1511
26 September 2013 at 12:12pm | IP Logged 
I get it, most metal is played abroad to a wider audience, and Dutch bands generally tend
to have sufficient English to pull off decent lyrics in that language. Especially the
type of people who play metal tend to have good English in our society.

In Belgium... well I guess Flemish bands do. But oh lord the English of Francophone bands
there...

Edited by tarvos on 26 September 2013 at 12:13pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Evita
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Latvia
learnlatvian.info
Joined 4661 days ago

734 posts - 1036 votes 
Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian
Studies: Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 884 of 1511
26 September 2013 at 11:33pm | IP Logged 
I just saw that you've started studying Korean. Good luck! I'm looking forward to see your progress.

I also started studying it with TTMIK and their lessons were very useful. However, they leave some gaps in your grammar knowledge so I suggest using another resource as well. It may be a text book or something else. For example, I used Click Korean, I think it's a very good course for beginners.

I support your audio-based approach, Korean really has a unique system of sounds. One of my main difficulties for a long time was recognizing verbs with different endings attached to them. For example, the double s in 있다 can be pronounced either as 's' or as 't' or as 'n' depending on what the next syllable starts with so you have to learn all the variations of the pronunciation before you can start recognizing it in speech. I suggest lots and lots of audio even if you can't understand anything yet except the occasional 'this' or 'that' or 'thank you'. I did it on my daily commute and it helped a lot for my listening comprehension. The TTMIK Iyagi series are good for this purpose, or you can listen to a radio station.
1 person has voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2816 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 885 of 1511
27 September 2013 at 10:51am | IP Logged 
I've only come as far as TTMIK, level 1, lesson 23. What audience is the Iyagi aimed at?
(I've seen it but not gone that far yet). I plan to use some tutoring side-by-side with
TTMIK.
1 person has voted this message useful



Evita
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Latvia
learnlatvian.info
Joined 4661 days ago

734 posts - 1036 votes 
Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian
Studies: Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 886 of 1511
27 September 2013 at 12:01pm | IP Logged 
Iyagi is aimed at intermediate learners, there's no English in these podcasts. I know some people think it's pretty pointless to listen to stuff you can't understand but I've found it very beneficial for my Korean. When I first started learning it, I did pretty much only the TTMIK lessons and I thought I was doing fine. I finished level 1, then I reviewed everything and then I did the test they have for level 1 and I understood only 10% of it. That's when I realized I needed lots of input to really get used to the language so I made listening my main activity. But everyone is different, maybe you will get used to the language easier.

As for TTMIK, one thing they never introduce is the formal endings ㅂ니다, ㅂ니까, ㅂ시다, and ㅂ시오 so you may want to look those up on your own. You won't hear them in the Iyagi podcasts but you will hear them all the time on the news (radio or TV). Another thing TTMIK never introduces is the plural particle 들. But this one is easy, you just attach the particle to nouns. It's not mandatory to use it to make a noun plural so usually people don't use it. When it is used, it is often attached to nouns describing people, like 사람들 and 친구들. In these cases it is often followed by the subject marking particle to make 사람들이 and 친구들이.

There are other things that the TTMIK lessons never explain properly but I can't remember all of them now. I think many of them are buried somewhere in my log. Oh and another thing I wanted to mention about the TTMIK lessons is that some of them are on the wrong levels IMO (I base it on how difficult it was for me to grasp the concepts). For example, lesson 2x19 introduces a noun phrase that includes turning an action verb into the adjective form, but the lessons about adjectives are only in level 3. That makes no sense. Another example - different ways to say "or" are introduced only in level 6 when they should have been introduced in level 3 at the latest.

To be fair, these are relatively minor shortcomings for such a great and free resource. I'm just telling you in advance because I wish someone had told this to me when I started the lessons.
3 persons have voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2816 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 887 of 1511
27 September 2013 at 12:23pm | IP Logged 
We'll see. I don't get too frustrated anymore when I don't understand something, (the
advantage of Korean being your 12th language I guess) and I've not got any time
pressure, I'm not in a hurry to speak fluent Korean in 3 months. But I get the same
feeling you do that I do need some more audio input apart from TTMIK, but I'm not sure
whether going over my head with the material will solve that problem, and also, I'm
generally taking it easy and I have some other languages to maintain such as Romanian
(more on my other languages in another log post later).

I generally don't listen to the news in any language, it's not really my target. I
don't even listen to the news in French or Dutch. I usually just read it, in which case
recognising those endings is enough.

I can understand skipping non-essential particles like the plural particle, I'd save
them for last if they're not often used.

I have had no trouble with the grammatical explanations, but one way to solve audio
input I will be using is just doing tutoring on iTalki, which is my usual to-go
resource if I want speaking and listening practice.
1 person has voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2816 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 888 of 1511
29 September 2013 at 1:10pm | IP Logged 
A Guide To Using Penpals websites (in particular Interpals) For Language
Practice


Some people may wonder what the hell this writing and messaging business I've been
going on about in this log is all about. The truth is, I have invented (or well,
invented - people have been doing this for ages, it's just gotten a new paint of coat
since we moved all of our communications to the internet!) an effective way of
practicing my languages in the absence of being around speakers of that language
regularly. For example, I don't really have regular contact with many Swedish or
Romanian speakers, they are quite simply not so widespread where I live. Occasionally I
do get to talking with people, and I have some contacts from elsewhere for some
languages so that I can speak them, but, in general, thin on the ground, right?

In comes the penpals solution! (if you want to speak per se, there is a solution for
that too; iTalki. I however use that slightly more professionally). I myself use
InterPals but there are other websites out there for language exchange. I prefer
InterPals because I don't have to give up specific languages - I can just message who I
want. If there's someone who speaks Breton, I just hit the search button and poof: I
get everyone listed as studying or speaking Breton and I can then formulate a message
to them!

Using this method, I've spoken to dozens of people who are natives of my target
languages. I have spoken every language I have listed here under speaks, plus Breton
and Hebrew, in the PAST. 6. WEEKS. I have gotten more than one response from people too
- this wasn't one message and then disappearing, some of these exchanges lasted for a
while and some can be a bit infrequent due to other people's schedules, but quite
regular on the whole. It is rare to message someone almost every day, although it does
happen. And most important of all; I've done it while keeping it in the target
language!


There is also the option of language exchange, but I don't generally use that as I find
exchanges laborious. I rather just speak language X to people (and if they want to
speak Dutch instead, they can just request that). I generally do not do a lot of
messaging in English, because hey, I speak that already, but if people are interesting
I will message them anyways).

Now, InterPals is a very good resource, and I use it extensively, but you have to keep
a couple guidelines in mind if you want to get responses for your messages! Here's a
few:

1. Some people seem to think InterPals is an online dating site, and it is not! Yes,
some people have the romance/relationship function turned on, I don't, and many people
don't! 99% of times these requests are not welcome, so don't do it. If you want to
practice your language skills through flirting, there's a way to do that too
(OKCupid.com is totally free and you can search for people who speak your target
language), so if you want to do that, go there! This is for finding penpals. Respect
that. From this follows

2. Intro messaging rules. The first message is always the hardest and there's bound to
be people who flake on you. There's nothing wrong with that - sometimes they get back
to you a week later, most of the times they just don't think a conversation with you
will be interesting for some reason, maybe they weren't planning to spend lots of time
online - who knows. However, if you're sending out intro messages and getting no
responses, there's a fair few reasons for that and lots of them are up. to. YOU. when
you're doing the messaging. I generally get a response within a couple days for about
80-90% of the messages I send (NOT wall posts). The rules are a) don't imply romance
where it's not wanted, b) write a message which contains information about you, shows
that you have read the other person's profile and are interested in communication with
that person), and c) spell properly, even in your target language. I use the Chrome
spellchecker to check all of my languages except for Breton (because Chrome doesn't
have it).

3. If you are a guy, don't be an asshole and don't just message girls. Guys can be just
as interesting to message and good language practice. I personally correspond in Breton   
and Hebrew with guys! Remember, this isn't a dating site. However, I will say that even
I skew towards messaging more girls, because sadly, 80% of the male population is a set
of horny bastards who haven't internalised the first two rules. So unfortunately you're
going to have to talk to the girls usually, and that means doing your best DOUBLE to
make a good impression. Don't be Casanova!

4. If you write an intro message and you want to do language practice, don't write it
in English! Start in your TL. I have done this and never failed to get a response back
in the TL! People are overjoyed and interested when they find out a foreigner speaks
their language well enough to construct a letter in it. Yes, you'll make a few spelling
and grammar mistakes (CORRECT THE SPELLING ONES WITH YOUR SPELLCHECKER FIRST). I wrote
my message to the guy I speak Breton with in Breton. I have composed numerous messages
in Russian and Romanian and Swedish. If you do this (don't be afraid to use help from
GT or a dictionary), you are guaranteed to stand out from people's badly written
English messages.

5. Some groups are well represented on InterPals. There are TONS of Russians who would
love to speak Russian with you. Eastern Europeans are everywhere and easy to find, so
if your language target is one of the eastern ones, eat your heart out. Western Europe,
Korea, Japan, China, and Latin America are also well represented. But you can find
everyone if you look for it.

6. If you don't understand everything in a message, use help! This is writing! You can
ask for clarification, use a dictionary, or Google Translate to aid you a bit! Take
your time, construct your message, and figure out those longer sentence structures. I
do recommend before you do start messaging, that you make sure you understand the
language at least somewhat. I haven't used the technique to speak languages from
scratch, although I imagine you could pull it off - I tend to learn alphabets, basic
grammar rules, and orthography regulations first. But in the beginning I used this for
Russian as well and I often didn't understand half of what people wrote. I looked up
half the words in a dictionary (when it's Breton I still often do this!). Be prepared
to rough it if you're not exactly proficient yet.

7. If you get a chance to strike up a great international friendship, do so! I have met
two people through this website in real life... in Tomsk, Russia! One of them has given
me a collage of a penguin that hangs on my wall and I got a yummy breakfast at her
grandmother's and she showed me around town! The other I stayed with for six days and
she let me sleep on her bed couch! Trust me, you'll have fun!

This is mostly good for practicing writing. For speaking practice, I generally use paid
services through iTalki (which are paid for by my own tutoring lessons, preventing me
from having to exchange during the same session. I normally don't do language exchanges
except with people I already know very well where I have an established relationship
with that person.)

Yes, you'll send a few messages into thin air. But I personally never get replies in
English or another language. Those who only want to speak English simply don't respond
usually, and I have a pretty high success rate!

So I recommend people check it out. I've made good friendships through this website!



9 persons have voted this message useful



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