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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan

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Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 3219 days ago

2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 353 of 1511
23 November 2012 at 6:52pm | IP Logged 
tarvos wrote:


РУ Насчет русского языка, у меня получил журнал <<наука и жизнь>>. Я постарался
читать один или два статьи, но мне было сложно - поэтому я продолжу.

Я также разговаривал с русккими по Интернете, с программой Верблинг. Это было неплохо -
мне сказали, что у меня хорошее произношение! К тому же, я почти не делаю ошибки.
Конечно, я ничего не верю в это, но если они так говорят - может быть это правда?

Я получил журнал. Я постарался ПРОчитать ОДНУ или ДВЕ статьи ("статья" - женского рода,
нужен винительный падеж), но мне было сложно, поэтому я продолжу (Что продолжу и почему
поэтому?. Лучше сказать "буду продолжать читать").
Я также разговаривал с руССКими по интернетУ или В интернетЕ, с помощью программы
"Верблинг" ( "с" здесь не звучит, не знаю почему). К тому же я почти не делаю ошибок.
(Если это их слова, то лучше сказать "мне сказали, что у меня хорошее произношение и
что я почти не делаю ошибок". Иначе получается, что это Ваше мнение).
Конечно, я совершенно в это не верю (слово "ничего" не может здесь употребляться,
потому что глагол "верить" не может управлять винительным или родительным падежами без
предлога). но, если они так говорят, может быть, это правда? ("может быть" в данном
случае является не сказуемым, а вводным словом, поэтому должно выделяться запятыми).
Мне кажется, что вместо ваших тире нужно поставить запятые. Между "но" и "если" стоит
запятая, так как далее не стоит слов "то" или "но".
Если что-то непонятно, спрашивайте.


Edited by Марк on 23 November 2012 at 8:08pm

2 persons have voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
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China
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Joined 2870 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 354 of 1511
25 November 2012 at 12:12am | IP Logged 
Today I didn't do any language study other than Breton, so I will now give a proper
Breton update. (In English, because I can't be arsed typing it all up in French
tonight). Before I say anything about Breton, I want to mention that I do exercise 1
(the translations) differently now: I don't use the book, but I translate directly from
the CD (I pause after every sentence). This forces me to translate directly from what I
hear, and forces me to think on the spot, as well as LISTEN to Breton. I don't get much
exposure to Breton, so hearing words in the sentence is very necessary to learn the
language.

Le Breton sans peine (until lesson 23)

So far I have learned a good amount of things about Breton. The dialogues are fairly
short, and that is a bummer, because you don't really learn a whole lot of vocabulary
per lesson, but they repeat vocabulary a lot and thus you retain most of the new
material very well. Furthermore Breton has a very caveman way of forming vocabulary at
times: most buildings are just ti-<noun>, with the noun indicating what the house is or
what is sold there. A few examples: ti-kêr is just "hotel de ville, mairie" (town hall
usually), ti-bank is a bank, ti-debriñ is a restaurant (literally house-to-eat), ti-
krampouezh is a pancake restaurant. To be at someone's place is described as being in
the house of someone: e ti ma breur is "in the house of my brother", at my brother's
place. Nothing really tough.

Furthermore, plurals are very easy in Breton: for most words it suffices to add -ed
(for animate things and beings). Pesk --> pesked (fish), krank --> kranked (crabs),
mignon --> mignoned (friends) (don't confuse it with cute!) etc. Most inanimate things
simply add -où. Bag --> bagoù (boats). There are also collective nouns, which are
already in the plural and add -enn to make them singular (krampouezh - krampouezhenn).

There are some irregular nouns as well, but I haven't met any of them. Many things that
come in big quantities, such as food items, are often found in this collective state.
There are some exceptions, such as apple (aval --> avaloù).

More good luck: there are NO CASES! A possessive is just made by removing the article
and thunking the possessor after it, so that is really easy as well (and there is no
preposition needed. No need to use "of" or "de". Kozh Yuna is simply Yuna's cat.)

Furthermore, what I have seen so far is that verbs are really easy because if you have
an explicit subject, verbs don't conjugate for person/number. They just use a verbal
particle + the infinitive (which verbal particle is used depends on what is expressed
before the verb; if it's the subject, the direct object, or another verb, it's a,
otherwise it's e). Verbs do conjugate if the subject is not explicitly stated though.

"To have" (kaout as the infinitive) is actually another conjugation of to be - to say
"I am hungry" you literally say "hunger to me is" , or Naon am eus. Nothing scary
there, just think of Russian.

Furthermore, things like poultry are just called "meat chicken" (kig yar). Yar is
chicken, and you just put it behind kig (meat) to get poultry. Again, caveman style,
but it's a really logical way of building vocabulary. In the same way, you can express
opposites by using di(s): aes - easy, diaes - difficult. liv = colour(ed), disliv =
decoloured. Note also that livañ = to paint (so literally to colour).

Verbs are, to be, to have, to do, to go, and to know excepted, all regular (with the
addition that to do is regular but the verb root does not correspond to the
infinitive). Most verbs have an ending that needs to be removed to form the base -
usually it's -al, -et, -iñ, or -añ, but plenty of verbs have no such ending and can be
used directly (komz = to speak is used this way).

Adjectives don't decline, they sometimes mutate with the noun though.

In fact, there are few things that are not easy in Breton - they are verb conjugations
(because there are quite a few tenses in Breton), word order (not inherently difficult,
but takes getting used to), and the mutations. These mutations and the concept of
liaisons and vowels are very important in Breton, and the mutations show the difference
between masculine/feminine (the only genders in Breton). The mutations also change
initial consonants a lot, and the mutation is triggered by two aspects: what is in
front of the word, and for nouns it depends on gender as well.

It also depends on the initial consonant whether the word mutates or not. Furthermore,
a lot of conjunctions and prepositions obtain an extra consonant before a vowel. (ha =
hag before a vowel).

This, and prepositions are conjugated for person. That is weird, and not something I am
very used to.

But all in all, the mutations aren't very hard to remember usually (often it's a
voiced/voiceless pair, and the ones that aren't are logical).

The verdict so far: Assimil is not introducing most of the more complex things (such as
verb conjugations) too quickly, but we have covered one of the four main mutations,
noun plurals, the principles of worder, adjectives (which come after the noun), and we
have seen some examples of declined prepositions. Furthermore there are some notes on
word formation.

Assimil is doing a decent job so far, but the humour is mostly lacking until now. And
Assimil does have a tendency to introduce useless words here and there.

Oh, and Breton counts using a vigitesimal system. Except for fifty, which is half
hundred. Sigh.


Edited by tarvos on 25 November 2012 at 12:14am

1 person has voted this message useful



Solfrid Cristin
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Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
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Norway
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Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 355 of 1511
25 November 2012 at 1:30pm | IP Logged 
Mmm. Breton sounds like my kind of language! Nice and simple. Also I visited Bretagne, and it is the only
place in France I actually felt culturally at home. Everywhere else in France I felt like a foreigner, in
Bretagne I felt like it could have been Norway, they were honest, straightforward,   No-nonsense, slightly
introvert and shy and liked a good laugh. Do you have any plans with your Breton or are you doing this just
for fun?

Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 25 November 2012 at 1:31pm

1 person has voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2870 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 356 of 1511
25 November 2012 at 2:57pm | IP Logged 
I have been to Bretagne too and liked it (although I just spoke French). As for plans
with my Breton: this is basically the "outlier" in my language arsenal. I do want to
use it and I do like it very much, and one of the reasons I am doing this (as I
outlined earlier in my log) is to underline the fact that you can learn endangered
languages and use them for real. If I, a Dutchman, can learn Breton (and I know other
people who have attempted to learn some of it and it made the locals very happy afaik)
then the locals and the French should also be able to, it's a shame not to preserve the
language.

The problem with getting really good at Breton is that there is no big arsenal of young
brittophones which you can talk to. There are only a couple hundred thousand speakers,
and 60% of them are over 60. Not exactly my age group. They do teach it in some schools
but the efforts are too little. Furthermore Breton is really a "curiosity" thing - it's
kind of really out there and weird language, even among the Celtic languages, because
it works a bit differently from Irish/Scottish Gaelic and it's not as well promoted as
Welsh is in the UK (this also has to do with French language policies which are
atrocious).

I do want to continue to speak Breton in the future, but if I don't achieve super-duper
fluency in it then that's no big loss. In terms of languages I really want to be
proficient in (such as French or Swedish) it's a different ball game. It is probably
just the curiosity item in my language arsenal. I basically chose to do Breton for the
Assimil experiment to see how far you can get in a language that is "removed from what
people usually speak" and simply operates on a different premise than Standard Average
European languages, to which all of my other languages (some exceptions in Russian
excluded) adhere.

I thus have no concrete goal, but if I maintain a respectable, say, B1 intermediate
level for the longest time then that is already good as it is. It's not an endangered
language for nothing and the paucity of materials out there is what it is (and for
Pete's sake I am not going to read the church stuff!)

I think that's it regarding Breton. I would value getting some more proficiency in
Russian a lot higher.

Edited by tarvos on 26 November 2012 at 3:22pm

1 person has voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2870 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 357 of 1511
26 November 2012 at 7:06pm | IP Logged 
FR: J'ai fait pas de choses strictement en français, mais comme j'utilise
l'Assimil en français, je commence ce petit message en français. (Pauvre vous, qui ne
comprend rien ;))

РУ: Однако, я прочитал статью о коррозии в россиских конструкциах, особенно об
боздействии на материалы строительства. Оказалось, что в России, развитие в этом плане
остается от Запада. В России мало испырательных центров для учения материалов
существуют, особенно на разных режимах, чтобы оценивать еффекты климатических
факторов на коррозию. Автор предложит создавать климатические станции в тех зонах в
районах, где область с более высокой агрессивностью. Это значит России надо создавать
станции, как в Сибири, так на Черном море.

Если я честно - у меня русский не всегда хватает, чтобый читать и понимать всю статью,
но, с помошью словаря, я стараюсь прочитать. Поэтому, я читаю очень медленно - только
преуспеваю читать одну статью про день.

FR: Et après ça, j'ai trouvé un peu de temps pour apprendre ma leçon quotidienne
de Breton. La texte parle des négations en Breton, qui ont une forme spéciale - si on
répond à la négative aux questions négatives, on commence le phrase par "Nann" suivi
du verbe. Si on affirme une phrase, on utilise "Ya." Malgré mes efforts héroïques, je
crois qu'aujourd'hui je n'ai pas eu du succès à vraiment apprendre les mots du jour,
cependant je trouve qu'ils reviendront dans ma tête tôt ou tard.

Edited by tarvos on 27 November 2012 at 11:47am

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Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 3219 days ago

2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 358 of 1511
27 November 2012 at 7:43am | IP Logged 
tarvos wrote:
эвалуировать

Does this word exist in Russian?
1 person has voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2870 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 359 of 1511
27 November 2012 at 11:46am | IP Logged 
You tell me. I forgot a proper synonym. Оценивать is better I guess, but I didn't manage
to remember that word when I wrote it (it came back to me just now)

Edited by tarvos on 27 November 2012 at 11:48am

1 person has voted this message useful



espejismo
Diglot
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Russian Federation
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498 posts - 905 votes 
Speaks: Russian*, English
Studies: Spanish, Greek, Azerbaijani

 
 Message 360 of 1511
27 November 2012 at 8:20pm | IP Logged 
Actually it is a word, or rather a neologism. It sort of entered Russian from English when Russians began
moving to the US, where they needed to evaluate their college degrees. I haven't seen it used outside of that
context though--эвалюировать диплом.


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