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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1337 of 1511 18 January 2015 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
Ah yeah, that's common. I didn't have anyone proofread my French blog material, but any other material I've written has always had that problem.
I already use Belgian expressions in my French (I always say kot/septante/nonante for example). But that's logical due to my experience being in Belgium (I never lived in France). It's more to get better at listening to certain accents - I don't have much trouble with vaudois but quebecois gives me nightmares. I'm thinking more about understanding and also connecting to those worlds - my actual spoken French is pretty good and my accent's only slight. Edited by tarvos on 18 January 2015 at 11:09pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1338 of 1511 19 January 2015 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I tried a different Russian teacher today and she said that (at least concerning the oral
part) I would easily pass the Russian equivalent of the C1 test. If I were to set a goal, it would be to reach C2 and I am apparently already on my way there. To do that I'd need to work a bit on pronunciation and on reading/writing. Well, I guess that's good enough a level for me. Edited by tarvos on 19 January 2015 at 5:43pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1339 of 1511 22 January 2015 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Why Slang Matters
People tend to learn the formal register first, and there is some merit to that if you're going to be working in financial business, but for most of us, language is a vehicle to communicate. Today I want to explain to you why slang matters, and give a short example of how I used slang to get people to be a little more friendly and closer to me in Russian (a language where I actually know a bunch of slang words). Most languages have two main registers: a more formal, written one, and a more casual spoken one. These mix to some extent, but usually the colloquial language differs to a certain extent from the formal one and the colloquial one is used by people on the street to make friends and to paint the town red. To live in a country, it isn't just the literature or your job that counts - it's a holistic process, and for that situation, slang matters. Because using slang gets you closer to the people and the colloquial language. You show closeness and intimacy to them, you show you can be friendly and function as a human being, and they will feel less distant from you. That barrier of ice you see before you when you talk to human beings? That fear? Slang takes that away. You may not use it all correctly, but it'll help you in social situations, and that's the hardest for people. They'll feel like they're making a fool of themselves, but using a bit of slang confidently and properly will help people warm up to you. I find this especially useful in countries where people may be a bit cold at first and there's a little dance around the moment where you get to find out what that other person is like. Slang helps with this. I speak Russian fairly casually and colloquially, and when I speak Russian I make sure to slip in a few casual words while talking, signifying to them "you can talk to me, I speak your language and your culture, I understand the rules of the game". Especially with younger people I will use particular slang like "обалдеть, пофиг(у), нихрена, зашибись" or I may use very colloquial expressions in my speech "крыша поехала", "чайник". In Russian I may use diminutives instead of proper nouns to express this kind of closeness (e.g. "кусочек", not "кусок".) Most of the time, they look at me like "How do you know that?" and laugh. People usually don't see slang coming from an obvious foreigner with a light accent, but they love it. The ice is broken, and they're going to warm up to you because they realise you made the effort to learn their rules properly. And from there on, you can make friends. Slang may sound like a weird thing to learn, but learn a bunch of words and their uses and you'll find making friends is suddenly a lot easier! Edited by tarvos on 22 January 2015 at 1:28pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1340 of 1511 23 January 2015 at 10:52am | IP Logged | |||||
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"Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
Just a short recording of a W.B. Yeats poem. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1341 of 1511 23 January 2015 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't know what bots visit my log, but I am over 200,000 views already and every day
I seem to get hundreds of views extra? It's certainly nice to know people read my stuff, but I hope it's not the Chinese government or maybe the North Koreans. I am not a spy. Well, not yet anyways. Anyway I've been reading a lot of Olly Richards' blog and I actually find his content quite inspiring. I only spoke to him shortly (we spoke in French and Spanish, the only two languages we share, and my Spanish is terrible at that). But it's interesting material and what I noticed is that he is close to Benny Lewis in mentality, but he gives very actionable tips on speaking and listening. Considering that listening is really my weak spot (I never do enough listening) I might have to delve deeper into his listening methods and get something actionable out of it. And that's motivated me to write this log post, because in this post I'm going to explain why I am actually a terrible language learner. And I'm going to show you why taking the examples of more recent languages, just so that it's all clear to people: I. Am. Not. A. Magician. People keep telling me "but you're special..." no. I had to work to get where I am, and yes, I know a bunch of good hacks, but the only reason I got this far is dogged determination and willingly looking like a fool in front of everyone speaking a foreign language. Still Not A Magician. And still you could argue I'm getting good results. In fact, last Tuesday I was interviewed, along with a few others, for research on how to teach immigrants Dutch quickly. (Thanks for tipping them off, Sprachprofi! I think it was you?) So, I present to you: Five Reasons Why I Can Be a Better Language Learner Five reasons. You read that right. This is me taking the scalpel and brutalizing my own innards to show you why I can do better and faster. There are five things: 1. Make more effective use of my spoken sessions I can make much more effective use of my spoken sessions. I have a hard time building up vocabulary. We're going to use the example of Mandarin Chinese, where vocabulary is a very alien beast compared to learning French. I could use SRS programmes to review new vocabulary (I forget loads! I wish anyone who told me I had a good memory would go back and check my spoken classes). If I were more effective by noting down the new and useful vocabulary, then I would probably progress quicker at speaking. I still use my Pleco app to cheat while speaking in class, and it's helped me to remember certain vocabulary items (like "suannai" for yoghurt), but I could up the ante. 2. Evolve my social network People forget this all the time but your social network in your life determines the languages you are really good at. The reason my Russian is at advanced fluency is not because I have inherent knowledge of all the grammatical rules, but because I speak to 5 different Russians daily. Even if that's just textchat, it's consistent use. It shows in my results. I don't have a very big Chinese social network, so what I am going to do when I am going to china is download Chinese social network apps and see how many Chinese people want to meet up for green tea and evolve that way. I have noticed that Romanian stays with me much less because I have less regular contact in Romanian. I still occasionally read or use it, but I need to actively seek out and maintain more Romanian contacts. On the other hand, Swedish is well cared-for. My failure in language learning is thus not a linguistic one - I just don't get out enough. So in China my goal will be to get out more. 3. I am not ruthless enough about iTalki teachers The hallmark of a good iTalki session is 1) you learned a lot of new things and 2) you feel drained as hell. Bad iTalki sessions are the ones where you just repeat and cover things you already know, or study the grammar book. I like my Greek teacher, but I'm not going to use her in the future because it's too classical a method for me (I've learned the fundamentals of Greek grammar very well though). But I can't really speak Greek very well and I need to fundamentally change my approach in order to speak Greek better. I've even switched my Russian teacher. I get on with my previous one very well, so she's just going to be a friend from now on, but my current community tutor is much stricter and organised with me, and the last class we had was eye-opening. I was being drilled on Russian pronunciation (which she told me to improve if I was to sit C2), and the first half-hour where we worked on a text about the Egyptian piramids led to me having to pronounce the letter ы over and over again. I can pronounce that letter now, but the consistent focus on producing connected speech and not swallowing every other syllable (a hallmark of rapid spoken speech) was annoying. I tend to use a very casual register and drop half my syllables. The fact that she didn't allow me to do that made the class extremely hard. But it was worth practicing, and this means she knows how to teach. A good teacher coaches you to bring the best out of your skills, even if you're good. Coaches aren't just for beginners, they are for professionals. I can use Russian on the job if I have to translate or explain a complicated grammar point for my Russian students when Dutch or English does not cut it. I need that perfect Russian for my iTalki work. Be strict about who you pick as your coach. I've wasted lots of time on the wrong people. Sometimes, this grammar stuff is necessary (and not 100% of the class is wasted), but I've learned my lesson - I have to shop around in order to find the right teacher. 4. Focus more on listening Listening is my weak spot. I've learned how to combine words and phrases rapidly, and most grammars (except agglutinative languages because I've never tried them) don't give me much trouble. If I work on my pronunciation a bit even being understood isn't an issue. But there's that terrible bit when you're a beginner when you just don't understand what they're telling you, and I don't have a foolproof way of coping with it. However, recently I've been suspecting it's because I don't do enough simultaneous reading and listening. The problem with listening can be a few things: 1. I don't know the words 2. I can't distinguish connected speech 3. I can hear the words, but I don't know what they mean or I can't keep track for long enough 1. means you need to do more vocabulary work. Get the vocabulary sorted out so you know what you can expect as an answer and work on your listening from there. After all you don't understand what you don't know. 2. This is the kicker for me. I tend to have a decent vocabulary but when I hear people speak it sounds like bleeeep-word-bleep. This means you need to go out and speak more often (so that you will learn where people put boundaries in natural speech) and you have to do more L-R, so you can get used to how people speak in various contexts. Audio/reading combinations are the holy grail of language learning. I do not do enough of this in my languages and my listening suffers as a result. 3. is a result of not knowing certain idioms or maybe some obscure grammar point. If it's an idiom, asking "what does that mean?" is good enough. If it's an obscure grammar point, make a mental note to revisit that or ask a tutor about it. They'll know. 5. I'm lazy and a procrastinator I put off consciously studying way too often. I don't use a lot of textbooks very consciously, but I could consciously do more with my Chinese input. Fortunately I am getting better at reading the Hanzi due to a conscious effort to switch tacks with my learning, and it's worked; I can read and derive more Hanzi now. And it's noticeable. 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1342 of 1511 26 January 2015 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Within three days, I am leaving for the Eastern Hemisphere and I am planning to learn all
about Chinese dumplings. Everything else is secondary. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1343 of 1511 29 January 2015 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Today, I leave for China. Wish me luck!
3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4641 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 1344 of 1511 29 January 2015 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Good luck Tarvos, hope you will have a great time. Please keep us posted on your new life in the Far East.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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