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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5599 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes  | Message 2482 of 3959 23 June 2011 at 11:25am | IP Logged | |||||
I find most interesting his halved h (Ⱶ) to indicate the vowel in words like lubet/libet or optumus/optimus. Did he want to introduce only an etymological spelling to indicate, that a contemporary [ i] was in the time of early Latin an [ u]. Or is it an intermediate vowel sound between [ i] and [ u], different both from pure /i/ and /u/? That could be the tongue-position of [ i] with lip-rounding, therefore [y]. Or the tongue-position of [ u] without lip-rounding, therefore [ɯ]. The Romans knew [y] from Greek words, the change to [ i] occured later in the Byzantine Empire. But I have never heard of misspellings like *"optymus". So maybe [ɯ] is right. But his halved-haitch was later sometimes (falsly) used to replace /y/ in Greek loan words. So any thoghts? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5599 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 2483 of 3959 23 June 2011 at 11:31am | IP Logged | |||||
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Heureka, I have found an answer: Look under the head word sonus medius.
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 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 2484 of 3959 23 June 2011 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
I followed the lead given by Cabaire, but ended up somewhere else, namely in an English introduction by Frances Lord to the socalled 'Roman' pronunciation, and here I found something about short (and unstressed) i/u: The grammarians speak of the obscure sound of i and u, short and unaccented in the middle of a word; so that in a number of words i and u were written indifferently, even by classic writers, as optimus or optumus, maximus or maxumus. This is but a simple and natural thing. The same obscurity occurs often in English, as, for instance, in words ending in able or ible. How easy, for instance, to confuse the sound and spelling in such words as detestable and digestible. [Serg. Explan. Art. Donat. Keil. v. II. p. 475.] Hae etiam duae i et u . . . interdum expressum suum sonum non habent: i, ut vir; u, ut optumus. Non enim possumus dicere vir producta i, nec optumus producta u; unde etiam mediae dic**tur. Et hoc in commune patiuntur inter se, et bene dixit Donatus has litteras in quibusdam dictionibus expressum suum sonum non habere. Hae etiam mediae dic**tur, quia quibusdam dictionibus expressum sonum non habent, . . . ut maxume pro maxime. . . . In quibusdam nominibus non certum exprimunt sonum; i, ut vir modo i opprimitur; u ut optumus modo u perdit sonum. My uninformed guess is that u/i in these contexts had been reduced to something like an unclear schwa sound that floated around somewhere in the middle of mouth and was combined with a tendency to lip rounding, but not as much as in 'u'. Such midtongue vowels are extant as full vowels in several languages, even in stressed position, and I have long been wondering why words with 'y' in Danish, 'u' in French or 'ü' in German aren't written with ы in Russian, but (mostly) with ю, which suggests a totally different sound. * PS: I also discovered that I have made a systematic mistake in mistake in my own Latin: Primum est intellegendum discrimen inter vocabula 'pronuntiatio' et 'pronuntiatus' (postcl.) vel 'appellatio', quae inter se maxime differunt. Pronuntiatio est actus recte orationem habendae, orator qui optime dicit, pronuntiationem optimam adhibet; pronuntiatus et appellatio (Apud Quintilianum) significant modum pronuntiandi, ad sonos ipsos spectantes. (Vicipedia) Or in English: "pronuntatio" means the act of pronouncing, and the true translation of 'pronunciation' is "pronuntiatus" or "appellatio". But the latter should in my opinion be used with restraint in Neolatin because it has several meanings, and 'pronunciation' is the meaning that is most likely to give confusion: 1. appeal (to higher authority) 2. name, term 3. noun 4. pronunciation 5. title, rank * PS: I know that Danish y, French u and German ü aren't midtongue vowels. But ю would still be better than ю Edited by Iversen on 14 September 2011 at 12:09am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 meramarina Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5967 days ago 1341 posts - 2303 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Italian, French Personal Language Map | Message 2486 of 3959 23 June 2011 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I should have clarified that this was a medical coding course. The certification is a valid, required professional credential, but there are a lot of scam courses that claim to train you for an easy, exciting way to make money now!
Actually the work is very complicated and difficult - you have to analyze medical records and then determine the correct code combination to describe the case for legal and payment purposes. You have to use two huge references ICD-9 (International Classification of Diseases) and CPT (Current Procedural Terminology) each about a thousand pages long, and some codes exclude others, some include others, some combinations are even illegal! I had a university degree and a few years of experience and was trying to convince this school that I could skip the basic beginner's coursework, such as learning that peri- means around, dermato- means skin, that kind of thing. I already knew morphology! Now analyzing things and then tagging them with the correct combination - whoever would have thought I'd enjoy that! Actually I love that kind of work, playing with words and codes all day, getting them EXACTLY RIGHT (if possible!) and I hope somebody will hire me to do that. Not so easy lately! It's an appealing profession if you like language and logic, even though it's not foreign language. You need to be able to handle Latin-based scientific terminology, of course. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 2487 of 3959 23 June 2011 at 5:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
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So essentially the prefix thing is just 0,000000001 % of the whole curriculum. But apparently an important economical factor for the school. Next invention might be that they demand 1000$ to teach you how to count.
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| meramarina Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5967 days ago 1341 posts - 2303 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Italian, French Personal Language Map | Message 2488 of 3959 23 June 2011 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Exactly. But health information management is a good field to be in right now and worth doing if you can get the right training and experience. But I'm hoping to get another technical editing/writing position instead, because I've found that it is very unhealthy to hang around with doctors! Any way I get to play with words is good, though.
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