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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Fasulye
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 Message 2801 of 3959
06 February 2012 at 8:00am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
GER: Jeder, der eine Parabolantenne besitzt, die auf den Astra-Satelliten ausgerichtet ist, wird zurzeit auf alle analoge Kanäle mit breite horizontale Streifen über die Programme gequält, weil die analogen Signale bald aufhören (30.April!). Meine Mutter mußte auch etwas Geld investieren, um zur Digital-Empfang zu wechseln, und ich habe das Wochenende damit verbracht, eine Liste aller Programme, die sie sehen kann, zu machen - drei A4-Seiten in zwei Spalten! Zum Glück stellte sich heraus, dass sie sich nur durch die zwei Serien mit insgesamt etwa 30 Programme blättern soll. Die Werbekanäle sind natürlich ganz gleichgültig (wer sieht eigentlich so was??), and die unendlich lange Reihe von deutsche Lokalsender ist ganz einfach zu viel für sie - aber 30 Deutsche Sender, das geht schon - sie guckt sowieso mehr Dänisches Fernsehen. Für mich war das wirklich interessante, das es unter die "hohen" Zahlen ganz viele Spanische, Französische und Polnische Programme gab - aber auch vereinzelnt Programme in Katalanisch, Portugiesisch, Italienisch, Weißrussisch und (wahrscheinlich) Kroatisch. Ich selbst habe nur Kabel-TV, und es fühlt sich mehr und mehr wie eine veraltete Technologie, wo meine Kanalauflistung von anderen Leute mit andere Interessen bestimmt wird, und ich ganze Pakete mit Müll kaufen muß, um meine Auswahl ausweiten zu können.


DE: Stimmt, das analoge Satellitenfernsehen wird in Deutschland zum 30. April 2012 abgeschaltet. Das wird auch meinen Vater betreffen, denn der hat auch einen ASTRA-Satelliten. Dort habe ich auch schon eifrig herumgezappt und festgestellt, dass nicht nur deutsche Programme dabei sind. Diese Sender in den romanischen Sprachen habe ich auch gefunden (und mir die Sender angehört), aber ich hatte dort auch polnische Sender und Al Jazeera gefunden. Diese vielen ausländischen Sender sind vor allem zu meinem eigenen Vergnügen, wenn ich dort mal zu Besuch bin, denn mein Vater schaut nur deutsches Fernsehen und vielleicht mal CNN und BBC World auf Englisch.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 06 February 2012 at 8:03am

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Iversen
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 Message 2802 of 3959
06 February 2012 at 10:38am | IP Logged 
GER: Ich denke das meine Mutter meistens Dänisches Fern sieht, wenn ich nich dabei bin, aber daß bedeutet auch, daß sie viele Englische Krimis im Originalton sieht - zum Beispiel Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, Taggart uzw. - aber nicht die Amerikanische (zu hysterisch, schnell und blutig). Die ganze Familie sieht gern Naturfilme und andere Dokumentarfilme auf Englisch UND Deutsch, aber ich glaube nicht, daß weder meine Mutter noch meine Schwester deutsche Filme gucken. Meine Mutter sieht mitunter auch die nordische Sender (auf Kabel), aber kaum meine Schwester - sie mag kein Schwedisch. Sie konnte im Gegenteil vermutlich Französisches Fernsehen verstehen, aber tue es vermutlich nicht - ich habe jedenfalls niemals davon gehört.

So wenn wir alle drei zusammen sind, ist ein Bißchen Diplomatie erforderlich - und dann ist es gut, eine großes Angebot zu haben.

Persönlich sehe ich am liebsten Dokumentarfilme, und weil ich keine Astra habe, wird es meistens Filme auf Englisch. Aber ich bemühe mich auch Filme, Quiz-Sendungen uzw. auf Deutsch, Norwegisch, Swedisch, Französisch, Spanisch und Italienisch zu sehen - und alles anderes, wenn etwas gesendet wird. Andere Sprachen kann ich nur auf Reisen und über das Internet hören.
   
Und ja, mit einem Digitalempfänger kann man auch Arabisches Fernsehen sehen (zwei Sender) - und sogar japanisches (NHK)und chinesisches Fernsehen (CCTV - mit Englische Untertexte). Auf Arirang von Korea wird aber anscheinend nur Englisch gesprochen.

ENG: Yesterday I wrote that analog programs on the Astra Satellite system are doomed - they will all die April 30, and until then recalcitrant users are being punished with broad bands across the screen, telling them to buy digitial receivers as fast as possible. OK, my mother now has bought such a receiver, and this weekend it was my job to make a list of all the digital programs she now can see and tell her how to survive in the jungle. It turned out that the programs she is likely to watch have no. 1-13 and 33-53 or so. She can ignore the scores of German local senders (including the Austrian and Swiss ones - I have not yet heard them speak in dialect, and then there is no reason to listen to them). She can and will also ignore the informercial, God and pop channels .. but probably also the Spanish, French, Polish etc. programs in the high numbers, which for me would be one major reason to go digital. Apart from that she also has cable TV where she can watch programs in English and the Nordic languages so now she is well served.

Fasulye countered that her father also is among those hit by the forced switch to digital, and I replied with a sociological study of TV watching habits in my family, based on languages..    

Edited by Iversen on 06 February 2012 at 2:54pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2803 of 3959
06 February 2012 at 10:41pm | IP Logged 
I'm still reading snippets of my Irish Kauderwelsch, and it is really illustrative because it has lots of hyperliteral translations, followed by ordinary meaning oriented translations - and also pronunciation directives expressed in ordinary Roman letters. Mostly the hyperliteral translations are logical (though rarely predictable), but I was wondering how the future tense of a verb meaning "verbrauchen, verbringen, werfen" could end up meaning "müssen" (p. 51):

Caithfidh an fear deifir a dhéanamh
kahé 'n fär djefir é jeené{
verbrauchen-wird der Mann Eile zu machen
Der man muß sich beeilen

Well, this looked strange so I looked "caith" up in my Irish Collins pocket dictionary:

vt, vi (missile) throw; (clothes, shoes) wear; wear out; (pol, fishing) cast; (money, time) spend; (food, MED) take; cigarettes (smoke), (gun, shot) fire;

... and a plethora of expressions, mostly with "caith" translated into throw or take.


I was still confused. But at least I'm not alone, because through Google I found this chap complaining:

Maybe I'm dense (most likely so) but how does caitheamh (caithfidh) play into the above phrases? Doesn't it mean spend/throw/wear ? It seems to have become "must" based on context, but there's a link I'm missing.

The next two answers:

"caith" is one of those multipurpose words that can mean many different things - usually there's no difficulty as the meaning is clear from the context.
Caithim tobac = I smoke tobacco
Caithim éadaí = I wear clothes
Caithim cloch = I throw a stone
Caithfidh mé imeacht = I must go.

caith can be used in the future or conditional to signify intent
Caithfidh mé imeacht = I must go.


A page named nualeargais.ie explains that

An impersonal "must" in the sense of conditions and obvious necessities, the following expressions are used:
(...)7(...) in the present tense/future tense: caithfidh (sé) go lit.: "will-use, that"
    Caithfidh go bhfuil sí ann = She must be there then.
(...)3(...)
caithfidh (= future tense of caith [use, throw etc].) + subject + VN/go
Caithfidh mé imeacht = I must go (lit.: "use will I to go")


Besides it mentions a related construction:

After má (if), a habit. present tense form of caith in the meaning "must" is allowed and necessary (because the future after má is always prohibited):
Má chaitheann sé imeacht = if he must go
Otherwise (except in Munster) besides the future- only conditional forms of caith are common.
Chaithfinn imeacht = I would have to go


My Irish must be progressing because the only word which I didn't know in all these examples was "imeacht" (going, departure, leaving). But the inner logic in the many meanings of "caith" still eludes me. Normally I'm able to guess how a certain expression came into being, i.e. how the mind that created the expression worked. But the inner logic in Celtic languages is far from what I know from Romance or Germanic languages.

Which oddly enough reminds me of something I saw in the printouts from "Lifandi Visindi" (Icelandic): almost all people on the planet see the future in front of them, but the Aymara see it behind them.


Edited by Iversen on 06 February 2012 at 10:49pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2804 of 3959
08 February 2012 at 1:17pm | IP Logged 
When I wrote the message above I had just seen some Irish which I actually understood. However yesterday I made and partly read a number of bilingual printouts from beo.ie, which brought me back to reality. But all this Irish stuff made me remember an episode i QI (the quiz with Stephen Fry which I have commented on several times). Fry asked "How many moons has the Earth got", and Alan Davies answered "One". Buuuuuuh. It had two, Fry said (and in another episode I think he added one more). The 'second moon' was called Cruithne, named after an ancient Irish tribe, the Cruthin. The problem is however that this object may share its orbit with the Earth, but it doesn't circle it, so Fry or no Fry, it isn't a moon. This has of course been pointed out at the forum of QI, which generally is an enjoyable place to lose some preconceived ideas about simple things.

Léigh mé fós mo leabhar Khauderwelsch



Edited by Iversen on 08 February 2012 at 2:13pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2805 of 3959
10 February 2012 at 10:43am | IP Logged 
ESP: Mi jam legis artikolon pri la situacio en Mjanmaro en la Esperanta versio de "Le Monde Diplomatique" (dankon a SPrachprofi, kiu kiu eldonis ligon en la fadeno Esperanto - ampleksa listo de ligiloj). Fakte mi vizitis Mjanmaron pasintjare kiel unu el la malmultaj bojkotorompantaj turistoj de ĉi tiu lando (nur ĉirkaŭ tri cent mil turistoj vizitis la internacian flughavenon de Ranguno en 2010, laŭ la artikolo), kaj estis evidenta ke la streĉa teno de la militista registaro estis malstreĉitanta iomete. Ekzemple oni povis aĉeti grandajn afiŝojn de Aung San Suu Kyi en multaj lokoj meze de Yangon. Ne estas trofrue, ke la generaloj malstreĉas la tenon - Mjanmaro fariĝis unu el la plej malriĉaj landoj en la regiono - kaj ankoraŭ ne estas demokrata paradizo. Sed por la turistoj estas bonega loko viziti - kvazaŭ Tajlando en la 80oj...

I followed Sprachprofi's link to the Esperantean version of "Le Monde diplomatique" in the thread "Esperanto - comprehensive list of links", and here I found among other things an article about the history of Myanmar, where it seems that the ruling junta at last is beginning to permit a limited amount of debate, maybe even a shimmering of democracy. Even though the elections in 2010 were limited to three parties and fraught with problems the article states that the elected members do behave like a real parliament. I visited the country last year (as one of a fairly small number of tourists there - in 2010 only 30.0900 international visitors passed through the International airport in Yangon) - and there were small signs that things were improving. At that time Aung San Suu Kyi was still in home detention (and the traffic through University Street outside her home was blocked), but you could buy posters of her and of her father all over the center of Yangon. It is not a minute too early that the junta loosens its grip - under a string of dictatorial, excentric and severely incompetent generals beginning with Ne Win Myanmar has become one of the poorest countries in the region, but the situation now with Thein Sein as president seems at least to be moving in the right direction. And it is a fine place to visit - almost like Thailand in the 80s before it became modernized.

FR: Il y a pourtant une chose qui m'étonne un peu: partout dans l'article on réfère à Myanmar comme "Birmo" (et "birma" comme adjectif). Même si c'est la junte des généraux qui a changé le nom en Myanmar, et bienque "Myanmar" réfère autant que "Burma/Birma" au groupe dominant du pays, les Birmans, le nom officiel est maintenant Myanmar. La seule raison pour retenir le vieux nom donné par les Anglais colonisateurs est d'agaçer les généraux, et il est clair que cela n'a pas fonctionné jusque maintenant. De même, le nom "Rangon" ("Rangoon") pour l'ancienne capitale du pays est assez procher d'être une insulte - dans la langue Birmane on ne peut même pas dire un R initial!

Edited by Iversen on 11 February 2012 at 9:18am

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Iversen
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 Message 2806 of 3959
12 February 2012 at 12:56pm | IP Logged 
DU: Gisteren heb ik deelgenomen aan een vergadering in mijn reisklub in de stad Holstebro in West-Jutland, en het duurde een paar uur er en terug te gaan. In de trein las ik (of herlas) oude papers in en over de Friese taal van de tijd waar wij hier bij HTLAL over het totaal aantal Friestaligen hebben gesproken. Vandaag wonen bijna alle Friestaliger in het Vriesland in de Nederlanden, maar met het 'Stadsfries' zijn de nummers verrassend groote - ongeveer 300.000 of meer - het Fryske Wikipedia zegt "Fan 'e likernôch 630.000 ynwenners fan 'e provinsje Fryslân kin 94% Frysk ferstean, 74% Frysk prate, 65% Frysk lêze en 17% Frysk skriuwe." .Ik heb niet gepland om dit taal te leren, maar van de tijd waar ik zag het eerst (en vond het erg moeilijk om te begrijpen) ben ik een of andere manier tot een niveau gekomen, waar ik het kan lezen bijna zonder een woordenboek. Wat goed is, omdat ik geen Fries woordenboek heb. Nog niet..

Yesterday I participated in a meeting in my travelclub in Holstebro in Western Jutland, and it took several hours to get there and back. In the train I read/reread some old printouts in and about about the Frisian language (made at the time where we discussed the total number of speakers). In the Frisian Wikipedia it is claimed that of the 630.000 inhabitants of Vriisland in the Netherlands 94% can understand it, 74% speak, 65% read it and 17% write it (however in these number it is almost certainly implied that 'Town Frisian' is included - it has more Dutch words and other influences than the more hardcore dialects. I have not planned to lern Frisian, but it is interesting that I had a hard time reading the stuff when I first saw it (as far as I remember in one of the German dialects, which now are almost extinct). Later when we had the discussed about the numbers I could read it with some difficulty, and now I can read it more or less without a dictionary - and good so, because I don't have a Frisian dictionary.

If you want to hear some Danish dialects then try this. Holstebro lies within the area where Hardsysselsk was - and to some degree still is - spoken. The clip in this dialect tells about some local plaice fishermen who were angry that some ugly blue animals always sneaked into their yarns which they then had to get rid of - and the only thing they could do with that stuff was to crush them and then feed their pigs with them. It turned out to be lobsters. More examples here, but with newer recordings and two speakers. However for Western Jutish I haven't been able to find anything like the Synnejysk Forening (Southern Jutish association) whose homepage I have quoted not long ago. There is something called Vendsyssel-Gildet (the Vendsyssel guild), but their homepage is in ordinary standard boring Danish.

Edited by Iversen on 12 February 2012 at 2:22pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2807 of 3959
12 February 2012 at 10:09pm | IP Logged 
RU: Когда я был в Тенерифе в месяц декабрь,, я купил небольшую книгу о "Сладости и десерты канарской кухни". И наконец было время, чтобы я прочитаю первые рецепты выпечки в ней. Это - запасом слов, с которыми я ранее не работал - не читал о дрожжах или выпечки формы в моей книги по истории или мои печатные тексты! Рецепт № 2 описывает "Bizcochón Canario", которых изображение кажется как мягким торт глазурью. Но русское название для этого торт "Кекс по-канарски". "Kiks" в датском, это "bisquit" (печенье) на английском языке, и это немного трудно вещей. Интересно, где русские нашли слово "кекс"! Мой словарь переводит "кекс" на "plumkage" (plumcake). Ингредиенты: 6 яиц, 500 г сахара, 500 муки, 1 пакетик хуммические дрожжи, центра натертая зеленого лимона, 1 стакан оливкового масла, 1 стакан молока, корица по вкысыс - и сироп: 450 сахара, 150 г боды. Я думаю, это будет большой торт!

I visited Tenerife in December and brought back a little booklet in Russian about Canary Island desserts and sweets. I have not had time to study it before now, but it is well worth the trouble - the vocabulary is quite different from every source I have worked with before (no bogatyrs here!), but doubtless relevant. I was slightly puzzled by the word "кекс" (/keks/) for something which clearly is a soft and squishy yellow cake with snow-white icing and a taste of lemon. In Danish a "kiks" is a bisquit. The ingredients are as follows: 6 eggs, 500 g sugar, 6 g flour, 1 packet of baking powder (described as 'chemical yeast'), the grated peel of a green lemon (!?), one cup of olive oil, one cup of milk, som cinnamon AND 'syrup' of 450 g sugar plus 150 g water. If you add these ingredients it will be a big cake indeed - you need a good appetite to eat cake à la russe!

Edited by Iversen on 12 February 2012 at 10:15pm

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Serpent
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 Message 2808 of 3959
13 February 2012 at 11:01am | IP Logged 
Я слышала, что кекс - это от слова cakes =) Еще аналогичный случай, когда множественное число стало единственным - слово рельс от rails.
Сама немножко путаюсь в кондитерских изделиях и их названиях на разных языках=)

химические дрожжи - редкий термин, чаще это называют разрыхлитель... аж самой погуглить пришлось) http://otvet.mail.ru/question/11443951/
что такое вкысыс?
и что удивило, цедра или зеленый лимон? последнее меня тоже удивило, но вообще цедра - распространенный ингредиент.

аж есть захотелось)))


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