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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Fasulye
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 Message 1953 of 3959
19 July 2010 at 8:55am | IP Logged 
I have questions about the languages "Malay" and "Indonesian":

1. Do both languages belong to the same language family? To which family?
2. Are they similar in pronouciation or grammar?
3. Are they mutually intellegible?

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 19 July 2010 at 8:58am

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ChristopherB
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 Message 1954 of 3959
19 July 2010 at 10:22am | IP Logged 
Wikipedia has all the answers to those questions.

1. Same family, Austronesian.

2. Very similar, with differences in both grammar and vocabulary.

3. Yes, they are mutually intelligible.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
The differences between Malay (Bahasa Melayu or Bahasa Malaysia) and Indonesian (Bahasa Indonesia) are slightly greater than those between British English and American English. They are mutually intelligible, but with differences in spelling, pronunciation and vocabulary.

For non-native speakers of the two languages, Malay and Indonesian may seem almost identical, but for native speakers, the differences can lead to incomprehension when used in formal conversation or written communication. These differences also affect broadcasting business in relation to foreign language subtitling, for example DVD movies or TV cable subscriptions. In order to reach out to a wider audience, sometimes both Indonesian and Malay subtitles are displayed in a movie side by side with other language subtitles.

Speakers of Standard Malay in Peninsular Malaysia tend to speak at a more flowing pace, while words that end with the letter "a" often come out as a schwa (/ə/). Indonesian speakers speak in clipped staccato tones, their "r"s are more markedly trilled, and all words are pronounced exactly as they are spelt.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_Malay_and_I ndonesian
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Fasulye
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 Message 1955 of 3959
19 July 2010 at 3:50pm | IP Logged 
ChristopherB wrote:
Wikipedia has all the answers to those questions.

1. Same family, Austronesian.

2. Very similar, with differences in both grammar and vocabulary.

3. Yes, they are mutually intelligible.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
The differences between Malay (Bahasa Melayu or Bahasa Malaysia) and Indonesian (Bahasa Indonesia) are slightly greater than those between British English and American English. They are mutually intelligible, but with differences in spelling, pronunciation and vocabulary.

For non-native speakers of the two languages, Malay and Indonesian may seem almost identical, but for native speakers, the differences can lead to incomprehension when used in formal conversation or written communication. These differences also affect broadcasting business in relation to foreign language subtitling, for example DVD movies or TV cable subscriptions. In order to reach out to a wider audience, sometimes both Indonesian and Malay subtitles are displayed in a movie side by side with other language subtitles.

Speakers of Standard Malay in Peninsular Malaysia tend to speak at a more flowing pace, while words that end with the letter "a" often come out as a schwa (/ə/). Indonesian speakers speak in clipped staccato tones, their "r"s are more markedly trilled, and all words are pronounced exactly as they are spelt.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_Malay_and_I ndonesian


This is short and presice information, thanks! I have not yet heard much about both languages, but I have seen that "Leidse Onderwijsinstellingen (LOI)" offers a correspondence course for Indonesian.

Edited by Fasulye on 19 July 2010 at 3:51pm

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Iversen
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 Message 1956 of 3959
20 July 2010 at 8:02am | IP Logged 
There are hundreds of million people who speaks those languages, but often as no. 2 after a local language - and this is true for both Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malaysia. From a purely statistical point of view it would be most logical to concentrate on the Indonesian version, which has by far the higher number of speakers - but as the article in Wikipedia shows the differences are not very big. I came here with an Indonesian language and I have made cross checks with my new Malaysian dictionary, at often the word that supposedly is Indonesian is also found in Malaysian, but maybe not as the prime choice. But you can see exactly the same thing with American and European Portuguese or English, and I'm not particularly concerned that my bahasa will be a hodpe-podge of both variants.

My studies are running smoothly, partly with the help of the weather that is unusually wet for the season. Until now my wordlists have been based on the Lonely Planet languageguide to Indonesian, but yesterday I started my usual run of lists based directy on the dictionary (which is Malaysian). I got through more than 400 words in one evening (A and the beginning of B), and this morning I did around 140 more (the rest of B). The strange thing is that my memorization runs as smoothly as with languages I have known for much longer, which is rather puzzling - maybe it is a result of the high degree of derivation, but then I don't understand why Russian gave me so more more trouble in the beginning.

I still don't speak the language, and I have not really tried to understand what people say around me, but I expect to be able to read simple texts in the language before the end of the month, and that's more than I had expected - even with this language, that lives up to everything about it I've heard about it.    

And just for fun (and to keep my other languages alive):

CA (sin diacritics): Hi ha centenars de milions de persones que parlan aquestes llengues, pero sovint com llengua secondari despres d'un idioma local - i aixo tant per a la bahasa d'Indonesia com a la bahasa de Malaisia. Vist de un punt purament estadistic, tinc que ser mes logic concentrar-se al aprendre la versio d'Indonesia, que te facilment el major nombre de parlants, tot i que (com l'article a la Viquipedia ho mostra) les diferencies no son talment importants.



Edited by Iversen on 20 July 2010 at 8:22am

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 Message 1957 of 3959
20 July 2010 at 8:21am | IP Logged 
Are you planning on continuing with Malay and Indonesian when you return home? I'd really be interested in reading about your progress. I'm always debating whether to take them up myself.
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Iversen
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 Message 1958 of 3959
20 July 2010 at 8:30am | IP Logged 
Well, it would be stupid not to finish the job new that I have got this far - but right now I focus almost entirely in this sole language, and of course I can't do that when I return home. After all, there are other languages out there which beg for attention. And at home I don't really need Bahasa for anything.

By the way, there is a skyping person in this room who speaks Finnish: uksi, kaksi, kolme, skyapo, nellaa, tolniko nean, na ja, kolmenkassiea, oullilankea and so on ... it is not good for my concentration. I would also like to learn that some day.

Edited by Iversen on 20 July 2010 at 8:47am

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Fasulye
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 Message 1959 of 3959
20 July 2010 at 8:20pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Well, it would be stupid not to finish the job new that I have got this far - but right now I focus almost entirely in this sole language, and of course I can't do that when I return home. After all, there are other languages out there which beg for attention. And at home I don't really need Bahasa for anything.

By the way, there is a skyping person in this room who speaks Finnish: uksi, kaksi, kolme, skyapo, nellaa, tolniko nean, na ja, kolmenkassiea, oullilankea and so on ... it is not good for my concentration. I would also like to learn that some day.


Finnish has some structural grammar similarities with Turkish, but I've never heard anybody speaking Finnish.

The result of my personal "TAC midterm evaluation" is not satisfying. In fact language learning is more important for me than "hanging around" in the forum all day long. I will take some consequences out of this.

Fasulye
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Iversen
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 Message 1960 of 3959
24 July 2010 at 3:30am | IP Logged 
I may spend some time here, but I have no plans about cutting down on that. My silence the last couple of days is due to a stay in the jungle. Out there I visited one of the 'settled' Penan communitites, and there the National Park administration had put a billboard with some information about this tribe, including their language. It belongs (as 'normal' Bahasa) to the Austronesian group, but with several major differences. For instance they have 10 words for sago, but none for thanks or goodbye - though now they use those from other languages. I have discussed the differences between Indonesian and Malaysian Bahasa with a guide at Mulu, and he said that the language used in that part of Malaysia actually has a lot in common with the Indonesian version. Now however I'm in Kuala Lumpur, where Bahasa Malaysia must be the only relevant version, and therefore I'm now doing my wordlists and watching subtitles on TV.

I'm seeing forward to returning home and resuming my normal multilingual habits. And now I'm off to the Zoo Negara.


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