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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!)

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Iversen
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 Message 2929 of 3959
13 May 2012 at 12:51pm | IP Logged 
Flarioca wrote:
Portuguese people say equipa, we say equipe. In both cases, it is a feminine word, so uma equipa/e.
(...)I would gladly help you in your phonetic studies of Portuguese, if you decided to use the IPA symbols :-))


The missing -a on "um" is a typing error, inspired (or provoked) by the sound notation just above. The "-a" in "equipa" is pronounced darker then a regular /a/, but clearer than a schwa, so instead of /ə/ I opted for the Swedish/German letter /ö/ to represent this sound (btw. I have corrected the link in my message from May 10 so now you can also listen to the clip in question).

I appreciate that you cut through the mist and told me that the speaker in this case meant to say "começar". My problem is that I heard a sound which shouldn't have been there, and then I wrote down what I heard even if the result wasn't a Portuguese word. I have just listened once again and I still hear that obnoxious /p/ in the middle of the word.

Thanks also for your offer of help with Portuguese pronunciation. The shift to IPA would be simple if I aleady knew IPA so well that I could 'hear' what a sequence of IPA signs represented. However I can already do this with my different homebrewed systems so in the short perspective I would loose rather than gain something by switching to IPA. The point of the transcription exercise is not to deliver something which can be used by others (although I do publish some examples here), but to force myself to listen to the sounds which actually are said instead of just listening for the meaning or for specific sounds, as I did before.

By the way I intend to visit the Algarve coast (Faró) soon so there I'll hopefully get a chance to hear and speak some European Portuguese. I have not made plans for a return trip to Brazil (which I only have visited once - well before I learned the language), but I do intend to visit new parts of that country again sometime in the future. So far I have only seen the Iguaçú Falls and Rio.

Edited by Iversen on 13 May 2012 at 1:28pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2930 of 3959
14 May 2012 at 12:30pm | IP Logged 
LAT: Nuper rursus Ephimeridem accedi, et experienta mixta fuit non per qualitates paginae interretis quae immutate altissima manet (usque de comitibus recentibus in Rhenania Septentrionali-Vestfalia nuntiatur ubi factiones dextrae gravi clade affectae sunt), sed per trista nonnullorum articulorum contenta. Exempli gratia situatio Malis, ubi tuaregi sibi independentia reclamant, eodem tempore milites in parte austrinae nationis gubernatium civilem demoverunt. Ego illic fuit Januarie MMXI, et mihi gaudet quia hodie non facile sit Timbuktum visitare. Etiam de iudicio Breivikis norvegici narratur, ubi circus mediae ad tragoedia secutus est. Minus conturbante est de rebus scientificis legere. Articulus est qui de luna Terrae secunda tractat. Ego iam de quasi-luna Cruithne in filo meo multiconfuso scribi, sed studiosi Universitatis Californianae Martinus Jutzi et Erica Asphauga alter theoria proferunt porut Terra olim duas Lunas veas haberent. Facte postulant quod "Usque hoc tempus minor Luna remaneret sat propius maioris gratia "puncti Lagrangeani" (puncti librationis), i.e. zonae in orbita Terrae, ubi Luna et Terra formant "caveam", qua tenentur quasi-immobiles etiam satis magna asteroides. Eadem lege teneretur ibi quoque Luna minor (pondere circiter ter minore maioris sui sororis massa). " . Num Cruithne relictum secundae lunae antiquae sit?

I have had a peek into good old Ephemeris to keep my Latin alive and happy, though I saw several things that didn't exactly serve to make the rest of me happy. For instance the reports about the situation in Mali, where the Tuaregs have proclaimed their own Islamic state in the North, while the situation in the South is unclear after a military coup. The only positive thing is that I was lucky enough to visit the country (including Tombouctou) while it still was accessible for ordinary travellers. It was also somewhat depressing to read about the media circus surrounding the Breivik trial in Norway. But at least you can read about more neutral subjects too (mostly in the scientific department), such as an article about a theory that states that the Earth once had two regular moons. Actually I have written in my log about the weird tumbling object Cruithne after it had been mentioned in the quiz QI, but the theory of Jutzi and Asphauga apparently claims that the Earth once upon a time had two real moons. One crashed into the Earth, but may have left some debris in the Lagrange points - a couple of points on the orbit of the Earth where different sources of gravity apparently cancel each other out so that things can stay there indefinitely. Well, who knows - maybe even pooor little Cruithne could be a fragment of such a lost moon.

PS: through a link in another thread (the message from Arekkusus) I chanced upon the Mezzoguild site and read the ongoing discussion about a certain Canadian TV program, which could be characterized as a half-missed chance to present some relevant stuff. But I also found something else, namely the 'confessions' of a visual-spatial learner (Donovan Nagel). I hope the author accepts that I quote his excellent advice for such learners. Some of it also hits home with me, but I have found ways to deal efficiently with single words whereas I simply can't remember whole sentences, so my methods will be different. However I can certainly recognize the futility of purely oral presentations and the preference for non-sequential methods and genuine texts. These are Nagel's socalled 'adjustments' of his learning methods:

I don’t bother with step-by-step coursework.
I ensure that all audio material I use is accompanied by something visual, e.g. transcripts or images.
I guide my language teachers to teach me the areas that I know I need. I don’t rely on them for structure.
I jump straight in to complex, natural language material even if I don’t understand anything and work backwards, breaking it down over time.
I completely avoid rote memorization which is useless to me
I use flashcards with whole sentences, phrases and pictures rather than single words



Edited by Iversen on 14 May 2012 at 1:42pm

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Iversen
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 Message 2931 of 3959
15 May 2012 at 1:20pm | IP Logged 
LAT: Inventarium verborum mei latinum heri fecit, Magnum vocabularium scolasticum Langenscheidtis utens quod dicitur 80.000 verba expressionesque continere. Cumputationem (de 6 paginis ex 832) obtinebat ut sequitur: Verba: 87 nota, 14 partim nota, ignota 43. Expressiones notae 77, partim notae 61, ignotae 48. Idem quam centesimae: Verba: 66% nota, 10% partim nota, ignota 30%. Expressiones notae 41%, partim notae 33%, ignotae 26%. Aestimatio verborum notorum: 12064, expressionum 10677. In pagina 479 verba "loco" (to place) et "locus" (a place) fere totam paginam implebant.

RU: Я также читал некоторые протоколы на русском языке, и я скопировал и изучал, в частности, небольшую статью о возобновлении уличного освещения в городе Петрозаводске.

Yesterday evening I counted Latin words using the very comprehensive "Großes Schulwörterbuch Latein" from Langenscheidt, which should have 80.000 words and expressions. However my calculations gave only a total of 19968 words and 25792 expressions. Explanation: I only used 6 pages out of 832, and on some of these pages I happened to get some very versatile words. for instance page 470 only had 6 words, but 44 expressions - "loco" (to place) and "locus" (a place) simply took most of the space. My final estimation ended up at 12064 known words - or 60% of the words in the sample. In 2009 I got an estimated 10.800 words (50%) with the same dictionary.

Besides I made wordlists in Bahasa Indonesia and read some old printouts from the town Petrozavodsk (which my mother, but not I have visited), and I copied and studied a short article about the renovation of their street lamps intensively.

Edited by Iversen on 16 May 2012 at 3:09am

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Iversen
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 Message 2932 of 3959
16 May 2012 at 3:31am | IP Logged 
IT: Sto ascoltando Raiuno dove si discuta il libro de Pinocchio, illustrato per entreviste con literati e scene da un film (NO, questa volta non è il film di Disney) - si dice per esempio che Collodi ebbe scritto il suo libro in due fasi separati da molti anni. Si dice anche che l'idea del naso crescento viene da un'espressione "con un palmo di naso". Forse, io non so. Ma ho letto il libro nolti anni fa.

DU: Ik heb ook ten minste 50 pagina's gelezen in mijn Nederlandse boek over Rome en het Vaticaan, die ik heb gekocht van een van de boek-kraampjes in de Vaticaanse Musea. Ik heb al eerder gestudeerd woordvolgorde in bijzinnen in dit boek, maar deze keer heb ik alleen lezen en dit gaat zeker iets sneller.

IT: Ora si parla di Proust, ma solo conosco Proust dalle citazioni in altri libri (e non intento leggere il suo mostruosa opera magna - non è una tentazione per me di perdere anni del MIO tempo mentre egli cerca il suo). FR: Je me demande s'il l'a jamais trouvé, ou peut-être s'est-il s'égaré dans les sons et parfums evoqués par son discours factice a un tel point qu'il a oubli ce que c'est que de chercher quelque chose ET LE TROUVER.

RU: И, кроме того, я изучил несколько коротких статей в "Мир Аэрофлот", который я взял по дороге домой из Москвы в 2008 году - но тогда я не мог читать русские тексты, и я просто нашел журнал, потому что я искал некоторых материалов для чтения на португальском языке.

FR: Et maintenant je regarde un quiz à TF2 en Français - les italiens avaient commencé a chanter. En ce moment un des participants a dit qu'il s'est occupé de la language catalane, mais l'épreuve qu'il nous a offerte de ses connaissances sonnait comme un sévère cas d'italien maccaroniacqe.   

Edited by Iversen on 16 May 2012 at 3:47am

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Fasulye
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 Message 2933 of 3959
16 May 2012 at 9:05am | IP Logged 
NL: Ik kijk heel graag twee quizzen op de Nederlandse TV (Nederland 2), die jij in Denemrken helaas niet kunt ontvangen. Mijn favoriete quizzen heten:

1. Twee voor twaalf

Daar zijn twee keer twee kandidaten en die moeten begrippen raden waarbij de beginletters van de begrippen voor het oplossingswoord worden gebruikt. De vraagen hebben goed intellectueel nivo en zijn meestal zo moeilijk dat de oplossingen in een encyclopedie (online of als boeken) door de kandidaten moeten worden opgezocht. Dat opzoeken van begrippen gaat natuurlijk van de tijd af die de kandidaten ter beschikking hebben. Het paar dat het oplossingswoord goed heeft en de minste tijd verbruikt heeft, heeft de quizronde gewonnen.

Dit is een zeer leerzaam quiz!

2. Per seconde wijzer

Bij deze quiz heb je altijd een enkele kandidaat die een hele ronde speelt. Hij mag de categorie kiezen: bijvoorbeeld wetenschap, politiek, literatuur enz. De quiz gaat zo dat hij (ik heb altijd mannelijke kandidaten in deze quiz gezien!) dat hij begrippen die tot één onderwerp horen met foto's of geluiden moet matchen. Daarvoor heeft hij heel weinig tijd ter beschikking en hij mag wel jokers inzetten. Uiteindelijk moet hij per spel 6 matches goed hebben (of met of zonder joker). Bijvoorbeeld kan het gebeuren dat hij dan 10 namen van bekende poltitici van de Nederlandse partij X te lezen krijgt met daarbij de 10 foto's van deze politici. Dus wie hoort bij wie? In de laaste quizuitzending hadden ze in de rubriek wetenschap de namen van 10 planeten en kleinplaneten met de foto's van deze hemelslichamen. Veel te makkelijk(!!) voor mij deze taak, maar ik zou niet in zo extreem korte tijd überhaupt een antwoord kunnen geven.

Fasulye




Edited by Fasulye on 16 May 2012 at 9:07am

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Iversen
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 Message 2934 of 3959
16 May 2012 at 10:06am | IP Logged 
DA: Det der er kommet nærmest til "Twee voor twaalf" på dansk TV var nok "Lykkehjulet" (american: Wheel of Fortune) - bare uden lykkehjul. Den kører vist ikke længere på nogen kanal, men var meget populær i mange ård, og den havde netop xdet der med forbogstaverne - se et eksempel her.

DU: Ik heb geen quiz op Deens gezien met "begrippen die tot één onderwerp horen met foto's of geluiden moet matchen", en met een speler opnemen tegen een aantal andere spelers zoals hierboven beschreven..

FR: Le quiz de TF2 que je viens de mentionner n'était pas de mon goût - ils ont commencé a chanter - horreur!

EN: I think that the best quizzes I have seen were 1) an English one with an Icelandic quizmaster - I have unfortunately forgotten his name. But there were 4 contestants, each with a special subject chosen by themselves, and then they had each two rounds in a black chair in an almost dark room, the first with 'general' questions, the second with questions about the chosen subject. And then they had to answer as many questions as possible within a certain timeframe - but not all at the same time (and NO high fives or screaming - this was a cultivated program!) 2) QI with Stephen Fry, which is extremely informative, but it also borders on sheer madness with points given for interesting answers (even if wrong), but penalty points given for answers that attest to common mnisconceptions - such as the erroneous belief that Pierre the Coubertin restarted the olympic games (it was an English vicar 46 years before). BBC E is whown on Danish television, but with the same twenty or so shows beeing repeated again and again and again and again and.....

FR: Je regarde aussi "Questions pour un champion" sur TV5, parce que le niveau des questions est assez élévé, et parce qu'il tout se déroule en bonne ordre sans les extremes bouts de histrionisme qui marrent certains autres quizz - ..

EN: and without the built-in malicious stupidity of "The weakest link", where the participants compete more on their skill in tactical bullying of certain other participants than on their own knowledge.

SW: Men programledaren är av stor betydelse: på svenska televisionen har jag ofta set en frågesport där deltagarna också kan söka at ramma specifika motståndare liksom i "den svagaste länken", men svenskarna lyckas göra dette i en förvånansvärt trevlig och positiv atmosfär.    


Edited by Iversen on 16 May 2012 at 10:07am

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Axystos
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 Message 2935 of 3959
16 May 2012 at 10:23am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
DA: Det der er kommet nærmest til "Twee voor twaalf" på dansk TV var nok "Lykkehjulet" (american: Wheel of Fortune) - bare uden lykkehjul. Den kører vist ikke længere på nogen kanal, men var meget populær i mange ård, og den havde netop xdet der med forbogstaverne - se et eksempel her.

NL: "Lykkehjulet" bestond in Nederland ook en heette Rad van Fortuin. "Twee voor Twaalf" is toch iets heel anders.
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Fasulye
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 Message 2936 of 3959
16 May 2012 at 3:34pm | IP Logged 
Axystos wrote:
Iversen wrote:
DA: Det der er kommet nærmest til "Twee voor twaalf" på dansk TV var nok "Lykkehjulet" (american: Wheel of Fortune) - bare uden lykkehjul. Den kører vist ikke længere på nogen kanal, men var meget populær i mange ård, og den havde netop xdet der med forbogstaverne - se et eksempel her.

NL: "Lykkehjulet" bestond in Nederland ook en heette Rad van Fortuin. "Twee voor Twaalf" is toch iets heel anders.


Bedankt voor het duidelijk maken dat er een verschil tussen "Twee voor twaalf" en "Wheel of Fortune" bestaat, want ikzelf ken "Wheel of Fortune" helemaal niet.

Fasulye


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